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Ideas… and More

Posted by Jason A. Churchill on June 30, 2006

While most observers agree that the Seattle Mariners have a chance in the mediocre American League West, the majority also agree on what the upgrades are possible.Dave Cameron at USS Mariner offers a great write-up on his ideas HERE and what might fit, and all we’ll do here is expound on the same.

It’s clear that center field and designated hitter are the only true weak spots in an otherwise surging offense led by Adrian Beltre’s best month since 2004 – and the Japanese combination of Ichiro and Kenji Johjima.

Beltre is slugging .619 in June – yes .619, yes Beltre – and 56 percent of his hits have gone for extra bases. Ichiro, even after an 0-for-5 on Thursday night, is hitting .396 this month and has scored 20 runs in 26 games.

Johjima has his Kung Fu Grip working to the tune of a .346 average and a sweltering player-of-the-month level .654 slugging percentage that includes five homers. nine doubles and Thursday night’s clutch triple.

Goooo Joh!

Anyways, Jeremy Reed has been better lately, but he’s still hitting just .226. His IsoP is hovering around .160, a decent number for a defensive outfielder. It’s a spot in the lineup that the M’s could certainly use an upgrade, though it’s highly unlikely that there’s much the club can do about it.

Adam Jones is NOT ready for the big leagues. He just isn’t. While he’s been very impressive in Triple-A Tacoma, those impressions come with a qualifier – he’s 20 years of age and has made a drastic position change.

Jones is hitting .272 with 11 home runs and is slugging .450 while he continues to get better defensively. He can put a hurtin’ on a fastball and is a markedly better today – in all facets – than he was in April.

But he’s still expanding his strikezone far too wide and far too often and can be overwhelmed by any pitcher that can effectively change speeds and get those pitches within a foot of the zone.

Ultimately, Jones is simply very inconsistent, streaky if you will. He’s not ready and may not be until this time next season. He may get a September call-up but any move that rushes Jones is a mistake. He won’t help the Mariners more than Reed does on a daily basis and such a move can be extremely detrimental to his development.

So if Jones is not the answer for center field in 2006, who is?

Jeremy Reed.

Ride him out. Though his batting average has not improved much since he’s been getting regular playing time (thanks to the Mariners facing but three southpaws all month and none since Noah Lowry), he’s certainly become more consistent in hitting the ball hard.

Reed has four multi-hit games in June and has hit safely in nine of his last 10 starts. He also has four home runs this month and continues to make a pretty significant impact in the field – see Thursday’s 8th inning, Guardado ass-saving catch.

If the club went out on the market looking for a center fielder, they’d either be stuck with the types of talent that most clubs would sit on their bench, such as Luis Matos , Jose Cruz or Kenny Lofton, or they’ll be forced to part with young talent to get a fairly marginal upgrade such as Brady Clark.

So the M’s are probably best served by sticking with Reed for the balance of the season.

The DH spot, the No. 5 slot in the starting rotation and the bullpen are all areas where upgrades are possible.

We’ve covered Carl Everett’s lack of value to the ball club, and Chris Snelling is the immediate answer. It’s not even worth scouring the rosters of the deadline sellers because Snelling is the BEST option. If he gets hurt again, the M’s can revert back to the farm system again and go with Greg Dobbs or, better yet, Shin-soo Choo, at least versus righties, while Morse keeps his duties against southpaws.
The bullpen is pretty good as a whole, but all of that credit is shared by just three arms – J.J. Putz, Rafael Soriano and George Sherrill.

Julio Mateo, Eddie Guardado and Jake Woods are… how can I put this lightly… umm.. terrible and utterly unreliable. Mateo can throw strikes, as can Woods, but when they do, which is often, they get blistered like the palm of a lonely teenage boy.

So, what to do…

Like Fruto, Francisco Cruceta has command issues that need improvement, but one can argue successfully that either right-hander could supplant Mateo and the club wouldn’t miss a beat and could possibly be better. But until they stop posting below-average BB/9 marks, Mateo will have the advantage.

Cha Seung Baek? Perhaps, but the M’s would be better suited with a veteran addition in place of Sean Green and/or Jake Woods.

Like Cameron mentions, Washington’s Jon Rauch is a very interesting possibility, as is Gary Majewski, though Jim Bowden will ask for the moon and likely hang onto that desire far too long to get a deal done.

Florida Marlins closer Joe Borowski may become available as Florida continues to flail more than 10 games out of postseason contention. Borowski would fit nicely as a 6th or 7th-inning option, his salary (327k) fits even better and Mike Hargrove would have to trust the 34-year-old more so than Woods, Fruto and Green.

Scott Williamson might be an interesting get, and would cost far less in trade and salary than his teammate Bob Howry.

Williamson is guaranteed $2 million this season but there is no further financial commitment attached.

If you want to improve the fifth spot in the starting rotation, looking toward Jeff Weaver is not the answer. He’s better than Joel Pineiro, easily, and is far better than he’s shown in the first half of the season. But there are two big problems with the idea.

1. Either the Mariners are acquiring, even if for nothing of value in return, more than $4 million in salary for the rest of the season, so the only way adding Weaver makes any sense is if you can swap Pineiro for him.

2. Why would the Angels swap Weaver for Pineiro? Joel is making just over $3 million for the remainder of the year and all the Angels would be doing is exchanging problem with a contract for another problem with a contract.

The conversation is worth having, however, because LA general manager Bill Stoneman may see the opportunity to grab a useful minor league reliever in the deal and that may make the swap worth while.

Note: Jeff Weaver is not a good option to replace Gil Meche, but he certainly would be a nice addition over Pineiro, as long as the M’s aren’t taking on more than, say, $1.5 million in salary. That’s for you, Willmore.

I’d propose keeping an eye on the Phillies and if they fall too far out, maybe Pat Gillick would consider parting ways with Cory Lidle, who’d be a pretty darned good No. 5 starter – and he isn’t owed any money after 2006.

And the Mariners can help the Colorado Rockies fall out of contention by sweeping them out of Safeco this weekend. Colorado has a few interesting arms, including Jason Jennings.

Jennings is much more of a winter idea but Byung-Hyun Kim may very well be a viable option and an arm that could move into the pen if the Mariners push through to the postseason. He’s making $1.25 million this season with an option for 2007 at $2 million. Trade cost, of course, is going to be the key in any deal Bill Bavasi makes.

Replacing Everett with Snelling and adding a quality bullpen arm are good possibilities. Finding an upgrade in the rotation maybe less critical and also less likely to happen, considering the return necessary for such players.But the club has positioned itself to be active at the trade deadline, and with a little creativity may be able to get a few things done to shore up a decent team.

It sure beats what the Angels have going on down in the OC. Ya think the rally monkey has starved to death, yet?


102 Responses to “Ideas… and More”

  1. Jerry said

    It is funny how the conversation comes back to this. I laughed a little when I read Dave Cameron’s piece in the USSMariner yesterday. It was like deja vu. I still think that Everett for Weaver would be more appealing to the Angels, but oh well.

    There is another underperforming pitcher that I think would be an interesting pickup: Matt Clement.

    The guy is a total mess right now. He is struggling bigtime. He supposedly has a shoulder strain right now, so that would be something the M’s would definitely have to look into aggressively. But there is reason to think that he has upside.

    Clement has been good in the past, getting lots of K’s. His command has always been a little off, but he has very very good stuff. He has always had potential, and he put up good years with Chicago from 2002-2004, and was great last year before struggling late in the season.

    The main reason I think that he could be an interesting project is from information in a recent piece by Peter Gammons. He talked about how tough playing in Boston can be, and discussed Clement in particular. I think that he is the type of guy who is likely to turn things around in a more mellow environment than Boston. Put him in Safeco Field, and with the M’s mellow fan following, and he could be a real steal.

    The best thing is, Boston would have very very little leverage in any deal, and they would have to eat a good chunk of his contract to move him. Clement is not worth what he will be paid next season, but if Boston pays enough to get that salary down to 6 or 7 million for 2007, then it would be a worthwhile gamble.

    The reason that I like this idea is that Clement is someone who could actually help the club in 2007 as well.

    Huge risk, clearly. But he could be the next El Duque. Get him out of Boston, and he could be a real steal.

  2. Jerry said

    Oops, I meant that he could be the next Jose Contreras, not El Duque. Got my Cubanos mixed up.

  3. MatthewCarruth said

    Weaver to be DFAed today.

    How do y’all like him now?

  4. slim said

    I don’t know about Weaver. He could be an upgrade over Pineiro, or he could continue what he’s been doing. $4 million is a big gamble there. If the Angels will take Guardado (though I think he’s got alittle value to us as a LOOGY), Pineiro, or Everett’s salary for him in trade along with a PTBNL, then fine. Otherwise, we wait for him to clear waivers (if he has in fact been DFA’d). Once he’s on the open market, Seattle should be an intriguing destination for him – pennent race, pitcher’s park, chance to stick it to LA. The Red Sox will be all over him too, I bet.

    I’d explore Armas (if he’s healthy soon) and Rauch. Rob Johnson and Yorman Bazardo might not be too high a price to pay for a legit boost.

  5. MatthewCarruth said

    “He could be an upgrade over Pineiro, or he could continue what he’s been doing.”

    Weaver, FIP: 5.20
    Pineiro, FIP: 5.20

    However, Weaver has a much nices xFIP, 4.61 to Joel’s 4.83.

    Weaver’s DER is really low, his IF/F is incredibly low, his HR/FB is really high, his LOB% is really low. Basically everything that is “out of his control” has been terribly unlucky.

    I swap him and Pineiro in a second. If we waiver claim him, even better because we could shift Joel to the pen or eat his salary and try to get something, anything in a trade.

  6. Beady Eyes said


    Weaver has NEVER been a big time game pitcher. Just ask the Yanks and Dodgers.

    Sorry, this guy will melt down in any pressure situation and if we have any HOPE to win the division, I would rather take a chance on ANYBODY but Weaver.

  7. Beady Eyes said


    Remember when Sele would melt down in big time situations? This guy is basically the same fella. He has NO guts as a pitcher. Don’t get me wrong, I want Pineiro gone like everyone else, but this guy is NOT the answer.

    If he comes here and proves me wrong, great! I just fear I am right about his makeup (there is a reason why nobody but the Angels wanted him in the offseason).

  8. I like the thought of Weaver for Everett or Guardado. We might be able to entice LALALALA by throwing in a minor-leaguer.

    I wanted to sign Weaver in the first place. I’d be completely OK with the M’s giving him a shot for half a season. I mean, heck, they’ve got the $4 million, even if they keep Joel. No one can stand here and tell me that they don’t have the financial resources to put in a claim on Weaver. Whether or not it’s a good idea is certainly debatable. I most certainly believe he’d pitch better in Seattle than he has in Anaheim.

    I also like the thoughts of Scott Williamson. His K/BB is at 3 over the past month, and his K/9 is 9. Hasn’t pitched a whole lot, so his ERA is pretty high. But, really, does anyone rightfully judge a reliever by his ERA? I truly wish sites like Yahoo and ESPN would add the “Runners Inherited Allowed to Score” and “Runners Bequethed that Other Pitchers Allowed To Score” figures prominently for relievers. The key is to find a pitcher that is a) effective and b) trustworthy (in Hargrove’s eyes). I think Scott Williamson would be a perfect fit in this situation.

  9. happybelly said

    The M’s traded Asdrubal Cabrera for Eduardo Perez.


  10. KB said

    Geeez, why didn’t anyone predict this incredible move?!

  11. Weaver has NEVER been a big time game pitcher. Just ask the Yanks and Dodgers.

    But, you see, Weaver wouldn’t necessarily have to be counted on for anything more than being a back-of-the-rotation innings eater. Another pitcher to help the Mariners return to contention possibly this season.

    People have argued for Cruceta to join the rotation, but I don’t think he’s ready. I don’t see the M’s having a lot of rotation depth to keep the team afloat in the division. If they were out of it like they were this time last year, then, yeah, you don’t bring in Weaver. It won’t hurt Livingston, Cruceta, Blackley, etc. to complete 2006 in the minors as long as the M’s are in contention. Would any of those guys help the M’s? Possibly. But you know as well as I do that as long as Hargrove’s here, he’s going to trust a shaky veteran.

    Bring Weaver in to help solidify a rotation in dire need of some depth. If and when the M’s make it to the postseason, stick him in the ‘pen or keep him off the roster.

  12. StandinPat said

    Okay the Cabrera for Perez trade has jsut put a huge damper on my day.

  13. StandinPat said

    WTF Bavasi?

  14. slim said

    I called for Perez a couple weeks ago. But not for AsCab.

  15. Michael Sayler said

    Mariners Acquire Eduardo Perez from the Indians for bench depth. He is old 36 (in baseball terms) for Asdrubal Cabrera 20 this makes no sense to me…… He was at AAA already at such a young age.

  16. KB said

    Not only that, but Asdrubal provided depth at 2B, 3B, & SS if any of our guys had went down… it’s a sad day.

  17. The M’s have depth at those positions beyond Cabrera but the big club got better today. Be happy about that. Perez destroys lefties and now Mike Morse is useless.

  18. StandinPat said

    But cabrera? You dont think Navarro could have netted Perez? How about Mateo?

  19. Mateo has no value. Seriously, you cant get a legit big league player for Mateo.

    And Navarro is hurt for one… and no, if they could have gotten Perez for Navarro, they would have.

    They paid a the higher price for Perez, yeah, but Cabrera was the most expendable of all the M’s spects.

  20. Doug Taylor said

    Cabrera is a great player, and it’s tough to see him go. But, you have to give up talent to get talent (in most cases); that’s just how it goes. Our team is stronger, and I wish AsCab the best.

  21. StandinPat said

    I just think Cabrera will be a quality MLB’r and we traded him for half a season of a platoon player.

  22. Cabrera was bait all along… Though you’d like to get more for him, this is good move in the end.

  23. StandinPat said

    I guess thats my biggest gripe, getting more for a guy like Cabrera. And since when did getting a Platoon against lefties DH outway our need for a starting pitcher and atleast one bullpen arm?

  24. ACabGone said

    I say whenever you can trade for a proven ML player for a minor leaguer, do it. Reed was supposed to be a great hitter with speed in the minors but hasn’t shown any of the promise in the majors. Prospects are just that they are prospects, some pan out and some don’t. I’m not saying ACab won’t be a good in the majors but i’d take a proven player over a minor leaguer any day.

  25. StandinPat said

    Thats true. Im just one for trading prospects for proven players that will be with the team for more than half a season. I would have liked to see AbsCab as part of a package that brought us Doug Davis for instance.

  26. slim said

    We have Perez for 2007 too if we want thim. He’s got an option, but I’m not sure for how much. Probably the same $1.7 million he makes this year. He’s a good bet to be a piece fo the puzzle in 2007 as well. So he’s not strictly a rent-a-player.

    Snelling and Ibanez will do well with him around to keep them rested. Now we have a guy that can give them a rest AND upgrade the offense at the same time. We can even move Senlling to RF and CF occasionally too to get Perez’s bat in the lineup vs. lefties.

  27. I just got the goods on that option… it’s for 2 mil… and that’s better news.

  28. Doug Taylor said


    I don’t know if I quite agree with that premise, but in this case, I do.

    AsCab was hitting .236 at the time of his trade…he’ll probably end up a better hitter than that, develop a little more power, etc. And, he’s darn good with the glove.

    But, and I know this is hard to believe considering where we were a few weeks ago, we’re not in rebuilding mode. We’re 2 games out, after an amazing month of June. We’re trying to win a division here…we can’t hold onto all of our good chips. Could we have gotten more for him? Maybe, I don’t know. Teams know that we’re a buyer this year, so we will have to give something up in order to improve our team. How much longer did Vince Coleman play for the Mariners after our run in 1995? But, he served an integral role on the team…he solidified a position (LF) that was notorious for being a rotating door.

    Hopefully, if the trade works out, Eduardo Perez will help us win the West. We weren’t going to be able to give them Scott Youngbauer for Perez, and Cabrera would have run up against Betancourt and Lopez, who, in all likelihood, would be our middle infield for at least the next ten years. I think we did Cabrera a favor.

  29. dnc said

    “I say whenever you can trade for a proven ML player for a minor leaguer, do it”

    Sincerely, Jason Varitek. Derek Lowe. And David Ortiz.

    I’m not entirely opposed to this move, although I do think we overpaid. But that general statement is asinine.

  30. The measure of prospect for proven MLB player has to be quantified. You don’t trade Adam Jones for Willie Bloomquist…

    Generally, however, you do overpay in potential talent to acquire proven talent.

    Oswaldo Navarro would have been a better fit. But I’m not going to sit around and bitch about trading Cabrera when the club is setting up so nicely offensively.

    Imagine the lineup with Snelling and Perez platooning at DH and Snelling spelling Raul in left 1-2 times a week.

    The Seattle Mariners can hit, ladies and gentleman.

  31. For the record, I think the trade was fine. Not Good, because they paid a little too much, but not BAD either, because Perez is a guaranteed and immediate help to the lineup.

    Though as Dave Cameron just pointed out to me, the M’s don’t face a lefty for another week.

  32. germpod said

    I think we did Cabrera a favor also. Cleveland seems like a good organaztion who does a good job calling up prospects. If we traded him to the Yankees or Bostom for example he would still be knowing he is playing to be traded to some team down the road.

    I have not checked out the new guys stats, but the most value Cabrera had for us was for a trade, he was not going to beat out Betencourt or Lopez.

  33. dnc said

    I agree Jason, I like the way this team sets up offensively, especially if and when Everett is dismissed, and Snelling is brought up.

    I’m sad to see AsCab go, but pretty much neutral on the deal. As long as Grover can be compelled to use Perez correctly, I like it.

    I wouldn’t mind keeping him for another year at $2 million either. He’s basically Bucky Jacobson with healthy knees and a modicum of defensive ability.

    Not a bad guy to have on the bench, even if Snelling is your full time starter next year.

  34. willmore2000 said

    Where does this leave Snelling ? Is he just a platoon bat getting 70% of the ABs and pining the bench for the rest of the games ? He’s an everyday talent, and while this might be a good setup to start, this is a bad setup once he’s healthy.

    Why can’t we have Shapiro for a GM ? We’d be stocked with young talent right now.

  35. willmore2000 said

    Oh, and if Bavasi really thinks that we can win, and this move shows that he does, than maybe he gets Weaver’s salary. The ownership sees the attendance figures, and while spending isn’t something they are fond of, they might be willing to pay, if it means winning. And Pineiro is a AA pitcher right now.

  36. slim said

    Yep, Sneling is a platoon player now and for next year too. Except for when Raul or Ichiro needs a day off twice a year. The extra rest will be good for him.

    We can’t have Shapiro because the Indians have him.

  37. MatthewCarruth said

    To snark back to the OP.

    I’d fully support acquiring BH Kim. I think he’d be an excellent add to the back of the rotation, or as a swingman and his cost is minimal.

  38. marc w. said

    Dealing a top prospect for a RH, soon-to-be-37 year old, 1B/DH platoon guy is silly.
    We all know AsCab was going to get moved some day, but if we’re this cavalier about moving prospects for ‘proven MLB players’ then we have no choice. If Adam Jones is traded for Jack Cust, I will lose it (and yet I half expect it).
    You take a guy who’s holding his own at AAA at a premium defensive position (who cares about his average – look at his OBP! This guy has an idea about the strike zone, and is going to be good) and trade him for the single most common commodity there is: RH slugger with zero defensive value.
    Eli Marrero could probably be picked up for a bucket of baseballs at this point, and he’s got a better 3 year record vs. southpaws than Perez. Or what about Craig Wilson, who I think would be decent value for Cabrera (if the Pirates won’t play him, they can’t exactly demand a lot in return). Or Casey Blake (Perez makes him look young). The minors are full of free-agent, AAAA types who can hit lefties and not much else. We got Bucky Jacobsen free, why’d we have to give up Cabrera for Perez?

  39. Goose said

    Casey Blake? The same guy who’s hitting .308/.388/.519? I’m pretty sure it would of cost us a hell of a lot more than A-Cab to get Blake.

  40. NWBaseball said

    This guy isn’t going to cost us a lot in terms of money, but I thought AC was way too high a cost to pay for him. He is only going to play against LH pitching which isn’t very often and he plays a position we have several at (1B, DH) see Sexon, Everett, Petagine, Morse, et. al. AsCab is playing a premium defensive position, has good strike zone judgement and is only 20 yrs old. I think we way overpaid for this guy. Why not wait till after the AS break to see if the price goes down?

  41. Cabrera is NOT a top prospect, he’s not even the M’s top prospect and the system is among the weakest 12 in baseball.

    Jones or Clement are the only two that qualify for that title.

  42. lyle said

    who’s gonna fill cabrera’s spot in tacoma? tui?

  43. StandinPat said

    But he is our top Middle IF prospect, thats why its a tough pill for me to swallow. He was definately blocked, but atleast gave us options in case of injury or trade. I think we overpaid, and that AbsCab could have been part of a package that netted us something of more signifigant value.

  44. And now the M’s can feel good about drafting a shortstop with the 20th pick overall in next June’s draft.

  45. No doubt, Pat, the M’s overpaid, but the loss is fairly minimal.

    The problem here is that they didn’t get more for him or a younger player that might play more than Perez will.

    Top candidates to fill Cabrera’s shortstop spot in Tacoma…

    1. Oswaldo Navarro
    2. Michael Garciaparra

    MG would be a short-term thing, but he’d have to come off the DL first.

    Navarro makes a ton of sense.

  46. StandinPat said

    Any chance the M’s look at the big picture, make some shrewd moves, and wind up with a couple of 1st round picks next year? If we hold on to Meche and he continues to pitch this way, we could offer him arby, let him sign elsewhere and wind up with two extras for him.

  47. That’s what I would do, Pat, no doubt. I’d be more than willing to go to arby with him and let him come back, too.

  48. nwbaseball said

    I agree our system is weak, but I considered AC to be one of our better prospects. Due to his defense and plate judgement at age 20 in AAA I assumed he would be pretty much of a lock to be an every day major leaguer by 2008, not with us, but with some club. I could be wrong, but I thought he’d bring more than he did. Look who we got last year for Wynn and Villone, Bazardo and Foppert. That’s the level of of talent I thought we’d have to give up.

  49. Looks like Morse is the move off the big club and he may play some short until they get it figured out long term.

  50. willmore2000 said

    I like the Morse move. It depletes our outfielders, but I want Petagine on the roster.

    It’s too much to think about it, but maybe Hargrove is smart enough to just bench Everett.

  51. Ulitmately, Everett will either be benched by Grover or DFA’d. Grover will have his choice… find a way to use Everett the same way he’s using Petagine now, or keep Petagine there and DFA Everett.

    He will not be allowed to control the club’s future payroll (Everett’s vesting option) just because he likes CREX.

  52. eknpdx said

    Jason, is Navarro on the 40-man roster still?

    MLB ain’t showing it.

  53. Beady Eyes said

    Positive Paul: If you put it that way, I can grudgingly agree to Weaver AS LONG as he produces and we don’t give up a lot to get him.

  54. He is… for some reason the site removed him weeks ago…

  55. Beady Eyes said

    Jason: I hope your right. C-Rex has worn out his welcome in my eyes. I just don’t think he’s the intangible player that people say he is.

    Everyone: Perez, now I love this deal…just because we don’t face lefties for the next week or so does not mean we won’t see a LOOGY or lefty set up guy or closer at some point. If Perez hits, he’s worth a SS who will never see the light of day with YuBet and Jose Lopez as our MIs for the next decade.

  56. I just love Bavasi’s willingness to part with a prospect to help the big club today because they have a chance to win the division.

    It’s still a little too much to give up, but it wasn’t Jones or Clement for a reserve, so no ledge jumping.

  57. StandinPat said

    The biggest thing Im taking away from this, is that its a start. Hopefully we will soon see another starter, another bullpen arm, and a fast moving vehicle carrying Carl Everett off of a cliff.

  58. I think the M’s have enough trade pieces to land ONE arm, either a relief guy like a Jorge Julio, or a starter, more likely the reliever.

    But not both, unless they find a way to get LAA trade them Weaver. But same division deals are always tough and the M’s won’t be the only team interested.

  59. garstar said

    I just wanted to say that that is a great post, Jason.

    Cheers for that.

  60. StandinPat said

    What about both a starter and reliever if they came from the same team, and we gave said team salary relief? Such as Livan Hernandez and Majweski or Rauch.

  61. willmore2000 said

    Livan will be a downgrade over Pineiro. Weaver is miles ahead. And Majewski doesn’t strike me like much of a compensation. Besides, he’s not a huge improvement over Mateo.

  62. willmore2000 said

    Jason, what do you know about Peguero ? He’s with the Rookie team in AZ and went 3-4 with 2 homers today. And he was slugging .519 before the homers. Limited sample size and all, but he can hit !

  63. StandinPat said


    Is it Hernandez’s ability to throw well over two hundred innings, or his previous three straight years of ERA’s in the threes that makes him a downgrade from Piniero? Weaver is miles ahead because of his higher ERA Im guessin? Not just career, but every single year except one?

  64. johnb said

    Promoting Jones to the Major’s put’s a permanent fork in his growth(See Beltre).

    The only thing wrong with Reed is the way his manager uses him.

    We need another veteran arm in the bullpen, and Guardado needs to adapt to another role, no way we can get rid of him….think middle relief.

    As for another starter, if a 37 year old situational hitter costs you Cabrera, what would a 4th starter cost?

  65. willmore2000 said

    No, it’s because Hernandez can’t throw a strike right now and is being pulverized in an inferiour league while pitching in a pitcher’s park. Pineiro is pitcher in a slightly worse park, in a better league and is posint comparable numbers.

    Compare the stats beyond ERA. 5.23 K/9 for Hernandez. 6.29 for Weaver. 2.13 BB/9 for Weaver. 3.68 BB/9 for Herandez.

    Weaver is putting up an unbelieavably freaky .320 BIPA. With our defense, that should be less. Moyer, Washburn and Meche are all below league average. Now, Hernandez is also posting a somewhat out of the ordinary .304 BIPA, but nowhere near Weaver’s.

    They are making identical amount of money, they will require similar compensation.

    Weaver is better !

  66. MatthewCarruth said

    There’s far more wrong with Reed than just the fact that he sits against LHP. Right now, the only place he deserves to be playing is in Tacoma.

  67. willmore2000 said

    There is noone better on the 40 man roster.

    Also, Choo went 4-5 and Snelling went 3-4 with a sac fly and 3 RBIs.

    Looks like Snelling is as close to ready as he’ll be this year. On of the hits was a double the other way, that tells me that he can hit the outside pitch again, and he also fouled off something like 6 or 7 pitches on the day, which shows me he has the bat speed he needs.

  68. jason said

    Reading these Mariner blogs makes me feel that I’m the only one that thinks Choo has an exciting future. Dave on ussmariner says he’s a baaaaaaaaaad defender who doesn’t have the ability to even be a major league regular. If he’s hitting .316 and can’t hit lefties, what is he hitting against righties, .500?

  69. Joshua said

    Vs. Righties
    RF Ichiro
    3B Beltre
    2B Lopez
    LF Ibanez
    1B Sexson
    C Johjima
    DH Snelling
    SS Betancourt
    CF Reed

    Vs. Lefties
    RF Ichiro
    3B Beltre
    2B Lopez
    LF Ibanez
    1B Sexson
    DH Perez
    C Johjima
    SS Betancourt
    CF Reed

    …I can see it now.

  70. J said

    re 68:

    Through the 26th
    Choo vs lefties: .220/.288/.237/.525
    Choo vs righties: .335/.413/.522/.935

  71. Choo isn’t a bad defender at all, he’s just not any sort of gold glover… but after some time to get comfy in Safeco, he’s a pretty large upgrade over Raul in left.

    And I’ve seen him a ton.

  72. Shaunjohn said

    doesn’t choo have a cannon for an arm?

  73. Edman said

    What is all this freakin’ love for Weaver? He’s had THREE years to prove he’s more than hype……and done NOTHING better than to be mediocre……and mostly terrible.

    Cracks me up that some are so freakin’ hard on Meche, who’s at least showing some signs of turning the corner. Then, giving a ton of love to Weaver, a guy who’ll NEVER be any good, until he checks his ego at the door, and starts to work hard.

    Right now, he’s NOT better than Pineiro. At least Joel has thrown a couple of games and kept his team in it. Weaver’s a freakin’ premadonna, who knows nothing of being part of a team.

    He’s so good, the Angels designated him for assignment, and called up his brother. Talk about insulting. He should be embarrassed.

    Willmore, show me more that “Blind Faith” in regard to discussions about Weaver. He’s shown that he can’t be relied on…..period.

    He signs for a minor league contract, and goes to Tacoma to PROVE he can pitch, I might be interested. But, he won’t, because dispite his numbers, he thinks he’s doing OK. It’s never him.

    Lets get help for the rotation…..REAL HELP. Not some project that MAY pan out. MAY isn’t good enough. We need someone who’ll MOST LIKELY help the team.

    I’m so sick of people grabbing “name” players out of thin air, then forging some sort of reasoning that he’ll do in Seattle, what he hasn’t done elsewhere.

  74. Allen Jacobs said

    Jason, I am puzzled why you appear positive on the Perez for Cabrera move.

    Perez is a 36 yr pinch hitter/DH with a lifetime .250/.327/.441 line. So what if he has had a good 90 ab’s this year. Bavasi gave away a top prospect for a guy with only marginal better talent than we already have…I guy who’s value beyond this year is replacement level at best.

    A better solution would have been to call up Snelling who would likely out hit both Perez and Dinosaur and would have cost nothing.

    This trade will go down as Bavasi’s version of the Jason Varitek deal.

  75. willmore2000 said


    And Pineiro is not a prima-donna ? Have you seen how he has responded to struggling ? He’s a crybaby.

    Weaver isn’t perfect, but Weaver has far greater potential than Pineiro. Since he lost his velocity, Pineiro has become a junkball pitcher, and that is not a recipe to success. Weaver on the other hand still possesses some good (not great) stuff that is comparable to Meche. What Weaver has shown is that he pitches better than his results (see my reasoning in 65). Pineiro has not, he has pitched as bad as he is. He doesn’t strike anyone out, he walks an average amount of batters and he has already allowed 14 home runs. Pineiro strikes out 4.15 per 9 innings (87th of 93 starters). That is not major-league starting material. That is plain horrible. The 1.33 K/BB ratio is horrible (83rd of 93). The 5.38 ERA is horrible. The 5.84 ERC is horrible (85th of 93). There could be a legit case for making Pineiro one of the 5 worst starters in the majors right now.

    Is Weaver a giant improvement ? No. But he’s enough of an improvement to warrant it.

  76. StandinPat said

    But would Weaver be an enough of an improvement over Cruceta, or Livingston? I dont belive so. Lets look at making an upgrade not a swap of pitchers that could be a potential wash.

  77. jason said

    The more I think about this trade, the more I dislike it. Isn’t Bavasi essentially choosing an Everett/Perez platoon over Snelling? If this is the case, Everett’s option will be vested, and we will be stuck with him next year at what 4 million? We may face 1 lefty in the next 3 weeks, so we may only see Perez start once before the all-star break. And we lose Cabrera to boot. I think this move helps the team a bit, but it really hurts the organization as a whole. I understanding trading Cabrera, but I think we could have packaged him and gotten much more.

  78. Salty Dog said

    #77: I don’t think we can infer an Everett/Perez platoon for the rest of the year from this move. Certainly Everett/Perez at DH will happen immediately, but I think Snelling is unrelated. He’ll be up when he’ll be up, regardless of this move

    On the whole, I’m not as against this trade as I was when I first saw it, nor as happy about it as I was a few hours after it.

    Giving up Cabrera isn’t a bad loss. Bavasi has already said that he’ll only deal from a short list of players, one that doesn’t include the legit top prospects (Clement, Jones mainly). It would have been nice to get a guy who’d play more, or a younger guy, but Perez will be useful. And keeping him into 2007 wouldn’t be terrible. $2 mil isn’t too much to spend on a quality righty stick.

    But the two things that really seem positive are:

    1. It’s early. If you’re going to give up a prospect for a piece, best to do it as soon as possible to get maximum value from the piece.

    2. It shows a commitment to making a run this year. And that should make for a fun rest of the season.

  79. DIQ said

    Who are you going to package him and for what pitcher. I hear everybody suggesting we could have got more if we included him in a trade with more prospects, but for who exactly?

  80. J said

    The way I see it, the offense is still a big question mark and we’re managing to tread water with the pitching we have, bolstered by the resurgence of Felix. Adding Perez gives the offense and extra shot in the arm to see if they’re the real deal and if they can keep pace or no. Doing this move now would be better than taking the far greater number of prospects it would need to trade for a pitcher and sending them off now, only to find that the offense can’t keep up and we’ve just backed ourselves into a corner. Besides, who’s currently available for the rotation?

  81. Sakata said

    Through the 26th
    Choo vs lefties: .220/.288/.237/.525
    Choo vs righties: .335/.413/.522/.935

    Which are mostly fueled by a huge BABIP difference. .272 vs LHP and .392(!) vs RHP.

    You neutralize them for a typical blue-chip BABIP of ~.350 and you have
    vs LHP: .288/ .348/ .305/ .653
    vs RHP: .304/ .386/ .487/ .873

    Of course, which his speed, it would likely be closer to his .366 overall, and probably still be quite a bit lower against LHP.

    And he still has absolutely no power against LHP (1 XBH in over 60 PA).

    But his problem is mostly just hitting the ball squarely off of them. His K/BB and PA/K aren’t far off from what they are against RHP.

  82. AK1984 said

    With regards to improving the Seattle Mariners, does anyone on here think that starting pitcher Brade Radke (5.11 ERA; 1.57 WHIP; 53 to 24 K:BB ratio; $9,000,000 salary) and center fielder Torii Hunter (.265 AVG; .342 OBP; .439 SLG; $10,750,000 salary) could help the team?

    If so, then do y’all think that a trade wherein the M’s sent starting pitcher Joel Piñeiro, relief pitcher Eddie Guardado, center fielder Jeremy Reed, and designated hitter Carl Everett to the Minnesota Twins for Radke and Hunter would improve the ballclub?

    The following are four reasons about why the Twins would make the deal:

    1. Piñeiro, unlike Radke, is under club control through 2007.
    2. The Twins lack a left-handed setup man like Guardado.
    3. Reed is cheap and has a lot of potential.
    4. Everett is better than Ruben Sierra and Rondell White.

  83. StandinPat said

    The biggest prob I see with them doing that, is that only Reed would be fitting into any long-term plans. The Twins can get more young talent than Jeremy Reed for Hunter and/or Radke.

  84. CHoo’s biggest issue versus lefties, like Reed’s, is that he doesn’t pick up the ball quick enough.

    He’s a total guess hitter v. LHP.

  85. willmore2000 said

    Edman, are you watching the game ? Any questions ?

  86. jason said

    What’s Reed hitting verses righties? Would we be a better team with Choo and Snelling over Reed and Everett? Could Choo adjust to center and platoon with Bloomquist? Then Snelling could be our everyday DH, and Perez can rot on the bench with Petagine as Cabrera flourishes in Buffalo.

  87. Goose said

    I don’t care who replaces him, but Joel has got to go.

    DFA him yesterday.

  88. StandinPat said

    Another eason I dont care for the Perez trade…Hargrove is a fucking idiot and has no idea how to use a lefty mashing righty. Why on earth did we trade for him? Is it to hit against lefites with men on in place of a player like everett who gets worked by said lefties? Thats what I thought but apparently no one mentioned that to Mike. The more and more I think about it, the more impressive it is that the M’s are above .500 with that guy running the team.

  89. willmore2000 said

    If you pinch-hit for Everett in the 6th against a lefty, you get an advantage. Then, if by the time that slot comes around, a righty is pitching, just pinch-hit Petagine. We have 2 legit pinch-hitters. USE THEM !!!

    I’m sick of Hargrove.

    And you know that he’ll get credit if we do well, even if he’s doing everything against it.

  90. bilbo said

    Hargrove is a freakin idiot. period. not PH for Everett was clearly wrong but possibly debatable (well, not really). Not PH for Reed w/ bases loaded was completely inexcusable! God he is painful to watch.

  91. Edman said

    LMFAO….Willmore, you’re soooooooooo predictable. I knew you’d post that…..as though Pineiro’s failure justifies your beliefs.

    Here’s a clue for you……I don’t want EITHER PINEIRO OR WEAVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Saying Weaver is an improvement is like saying, “Way kewl, I got a D-, rather than an E”

    So freakin’ what if Weaver is slightly better? That isn’t gonna get it done. Why pay more for slightly better? How about at least getting someone with a “C” average?

    You experiment with guys like Weaver at the beginning of the season…..not the middle in a playoff run. You go after someone who shores up a hole…..no simply makes it a little less leaky. So what if it gives you one more minute to keep from sinking…..you need to keep the boat afloat.

  92. Edman said

    Enough of an improvement? Please clarify WHY he’s better? You a scout? You watch the games he’s pitching?

    No……you’re simply throwing back up all the hype that has unjustifiably been laid at his feet. He’s never EVER met his promise…..and most likely NEVER WILL.

  93. willmore2000 said

    So you have yet to justify why he is bad, and I have to justify why he would be a good pickup ? I have, about three times now. Is he worth the 8 mil he is getting right now ? No, certainly not. But neither is Washburn playing to his salary. Since when has that been news in baseball ? Weaver has been a victim of some of the worst defense in baseball. He has done a very good job of not walking guys this year, and still strikes out a decent bunch. In Seattle, with our defense, if he posts similar numbers, he will have an ERA in the high 3s, low 4s. I can’t guarantee it, but I would be very surprised if it didn’t happen. And since right now Weaver is the only cheap option (cheap, because he’s not going to cost as Cabrera-like prospects), I’d jump on him.

    And guess what, if he doesn’t work out, and we are out of the race, the deadline is still a month away and we can deal him for prospects.

    Oh, and I didn’t realize you could get Es …

    Anyways, before bashing me, provide one single unbiased point on why you think Weaver is a bad idea. And don’t mention either money, because we can afford it or his ERA, because I’ve already explained how it’s inflated, or his will to win/pass history/whatever because it has absolutely nothing to do with what he might do for us.

  94. MatthewCarruth said

    Jason, will you have news, or know where we can find out, about any international signings the Ms make? July 2nd is the day they’re eligible.

  95. If I find anything out, I’ll let ya know.

    I am going to be calling the club’s director of minor league operations on Sunday or Monday, so if he has something that has yet to be released, I’ll get it from him and post the news.

  96. Allen Jacobs said

    With Reed’s injury it will be interesting what options Bavasi goes with. Going out on a limb I would make a few moves:

    1) Call up Snelling and start him in RF moving Ichiro into CF
    2) DFA Petegine and call up Choo

    Yes this might sound crazy but a 4th outfielder would be good and they way Carl is hitting, we could use an alternative against righties.

  97. StandinPat said

    I think Reed is a great person from everything I have seen, so it makes me a littel sad to be happy that he will be out for a while. I agree allen that movign Ichiro to CF would really open up the offense. Choo in Right, Snelling in left and Ibanez at DH. THat basically makes a lineup with all mlb avg hitters at a minimum. The only I change, DFA Everett, not Petagine.

  98. Allen said

    97 your are correct re: Everett but I thought DFA-ing Petegine would be more palatable for Bavasi’s ego. Against Lefties M’s could put Perez at DH, Ibanez in LF and Choo sits. Snelling has a better arm than Ibanez for RF.

  99. I don’t think Bavasi’s ego is going to be in question when it comes down to Everett or Petagine.
    He realizes that when it’s time, it’s time.

    See: Spiezio.

  100. –Snelling has a better arm than Ibanez for RF.–

    Somewhat better, but it’s not all that significant. But you really want the fielder with the most range to be playing left. In this scenario, that’s clearly Snelling.

  101. MatthewCarruth said

    What about inquiring into Pitt’s Chris Duffy? They don’t appear too enamored with him at the moment and he can play a good CF.

  102. Allen Jacobs said

    Thanks for the insights Jason…today should be interesting.

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