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Hargrove Must Go

Posted by Jason A. Churchill on July 16, 2006

In a very timely analysis, USSMariner’s Dave Cameron hits the proverbial nail on its proverbial head in his piece USSMariner – Brutal.

Mike Hargrove continues to cost this team chances to win games with his absurd usage of the bullpen and his insane loyalty to WIllie Bloomquist, Carl Everett and his own stubborn philosophies.

Win or lose, it’s time to shed another veteran from the clubhouse.  This time, it’s due to stupidity and pig-headedness, rather than lack of physical abilities.   Hargrove does NOTHING at the helm of the goodship Mariner that the average AA skipper couldn’t do.

He doesn’t motivate.  He doesn’t win games with strategy or guts.  He sure doesn’t win games with situational decisions and there’s at least one managerial candidate in his own dugout with more natural ability to manage a baseball team than does Dudley. (See image — Dan Rohn in front with Roger Hansen)
I have no further analysis, Cameron rips apart Hargrove’s management of the bullpen the past two days where JJ Putz, among the top few relievers in all of baseball this year, pitched less than Jake Woods in two extra-inning ballgames.

Need we say more?

Talk amongst yaselves.

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82 Responses to “Hargrove Must Go”

  1. Goose said

    I just wish there was something us as fans could do to get him fired.

  2. Ty said

    Didn’t the Orioles fans have a petition going? Haha.

    After every game, you can easily look back and say he made AT LEAST 3 mistakes, and sometimes it costs us the game. He’s just not a good manager. I don’t know how he won all of those games in Cleveland but it sure as hell wasn’t him.

    Please, take a hike, Mike.

  3. I can tell you how he won all those games in Cleveland…

    Jim Thome, Kenny Lofton, Robby Alomar, The All-Star Jose Mesa, Omar Vizquel, Manny Ramirez, Albert Belle, Charles Nagy, Eddie Murray, Eric Plunk, Paul Shuey… there weren’t many holes.

  4. jason2 said

    It’s amazing. During the postgame I heard hargrove say he didn’t want to use Putz today because of yesterday. Miss Drayer said he was “gassed” after yesterday. Confused? Apparently, Putz may have warmed up as many 5! times yesterday. Another good excuse for Hargrove. This guy is unbelievable. What do the players think? They bust their ass for 25 innings in 2 days and they don’t even get the benefit of their best relief pither. When Bavasi, Armstrong and whoever else watches this crap, what are they thinking? I am drinking the cool aid. I think this is a good team with some awesome pieces in place. Unfortunately, they may have the worst manger in baseball leading them.

  5. If Putz warmed up five times on Sat. Grover should be canned for that alone.

    What a joke.

    Bavasi is losing points every day he lets Hargrove run this team into another last place finish.

  6. Willmore said

    You just watch, we will lose the next 2 games, Bavasi will not pull the trigger, then we win 5 in a row, and Hargrove is safe once again. This is absurd. Hargrove manages to win every time his job is in jeopardy.

  7. SethGrandpa said

    For those of you who are just now jumping on the “we hate Mike Hargrove” bandwagon…WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG. And I know, Jason, you hate people calling for Bavasi’s job (like me), but if he’s to big of a moron not to get rid of Everett and Hargrove I think you might start to see it my way.

    But wait kids, there’s good news (in a kind of sick way). Look at the schedule!!! NYY-BOS-TOR. No way Hargrove should make it through that stretch. I bet that we’re at least 8 games out in a week and a half. If Bavasi doesn’t can Hargrove by that point then somehow he might actually surpass Hargrove in sheer stupidity.

  8. dnc said

    Jason, I agree. I’ve been a mild Bavasi defender for months, and feel we could do much worse. But the ongoing presence of Everett and Hargrove has pushed me *this* close the edge. I just can’t understond how a competent GM could tolerate this madness.

    If Grover and Everett are here at the end of this week, I’ll officially be on the Fire Bavasi bandwagon.

  9. Unfortunately, it’s not totally up to Bavasi to can Hargrove. He’s owed money beyond 2006 and that’s a Howard Lincoln call.

    He can strongly recommend Hargrove’s firing, but it doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

  10. MatthewCarruth said

    Hargrove isn’t getting fired this season. Just accept it. It’ll happen in the offseason.

  11. marinerswinws said

    I hate Hargrove he should be canned NOW. Where the hell was Putz in todays game?

  12. Digger said

    I can’t help thinking this rush to judgement is a little hasty.

    At the start of the season the concensus on the internet was that the Mariners would not be a .500 team. If told that they’d be 4 games under .500 with 70 left to play, you guys would have concluded that was about right.

    But if you could have known back then that:
    -Sexson’s OPS would be .717
    -Guardado would be completely in the tank, having personally blown 6 games
    -Reed would be hitting .217
    -Felix (we never call him King Felix anymore) would be substantially less productive than Meche,
    you would have said it was a miracle that the Ms were only 4 games out of 1st in the division. Who, then, should get the credit for this state of affairs?

    Grover is being vilified for:
    (1) playing Everett at DH instead of Snelling, and
    (2) mismanaaging the bullpen over the last TWO close games.

    Do we have enough information for an informed opinion about (1)? Do the doctors think Snelling is ready right now? His last 2 injuries occurred immediately after being called up. Is it wrong to be conservative now? What if he’s the key piece in a planned trade for Jason Schmidt at the deadline? That, too, would call for moderation. (I have no information on this, but can anyone say for sure it’s not so?)

    And as to (2)…small sample size. And if (big if) the Ms had scored a run in any of those 7 extra innings, it sure would have been nice to see Putz coming in to close it out.

    Maybe our glass is half full after all. Let’s see if another shoe or two doesn’t hit the floor soon.

  13. Goose said

    Believe me, those two reasons are just the tip of the iceberg for Hargrove.

    He has done so many wrong and stupid things over the past two years, that I don’t know where to begin.

    Rush to judgement a little hasty? If anything, it’s taken alot of people too damn long to relize it, when people like me and a few others were saying the hiring was a bad idea to begin with.

  14. MT said

    >Digger

    as to (2), no he’s been mismanaging much more than these two games.

    His bullpen/bench mismanagement has cost us at least 6 games this season. Ok, maybe the players might not’ve come through in those (at a minimum) 6 games, but the job of the manager is to put his team in a better position to win, and Mike Hargrove has just been atrocious in doing so.

    It’s just not these two games… People have been going berzerk over his mis-managment for a while, and with the team so close to the division lead nowdays, his “managment” is just being put under the microscope a little more, compared to last year when it didn’t really matter if he managed badly or not.

    What pissed me off the most about yesterday’s game was the fact that it took until the 14th inning to use Perez, and the situation he was used in was a pretty meaningless one.

  15. taro said

    Yes. I just hope hes gone in the offseason.

  16. Edman said

    Damn, and I thought it was some pretty amazing defensive plays by the Jay’s outfielders that more or less, sealed the deal.

    Why aren’t we talking about how well the M’s played, against one of the better teams in baseball. Again, the focus is on Hargrove. Tomorrow, it may be Everett, but since he had two pretty big hits in the series, it’s hard to make a real case. But, we can wait, he’ll screw up soon enough.

    I would really like to know what the players think. After all, they’re the ones who play for him, not you or I. Does it really matter what WE think?

    It’s a pathetic argument, because Grover is here for the rest of the season, like it or not. Unless the team totally collapses, he’s staying.

    I don’t care if he stays……but am getting sick of the belly aching every freakin’ loss.

  17. StandinPat said

    Edman, if you dont get upset when the M’s lose, then what are you doing patrolling these blogs? Anyone who scans this site on a regular basis does so, because they do care about what the M’s do. ANd when those same people see their team being crippled by the moronic decisions of its manager it pisses them off. Those past two games were both winnable, if only we didnt have a monkey in a baseball cap making the calls. Granted a manager can make all the right moves and his team can still lose the game, but instead its the reverse. Hargrove makes nothing but stupid decisions and the team has to win despite him. Thats not fair to the fans or the players. Hell even Carl Everett, who has no right playing almsot every day, cant stand what Hargrove is doing, and Hargrove is the reason he still ahs a job. What does that tell you?

  18. VaughnStreet said

    Edman,

    You just don’t get it. Mariner fans understand that they don’t have a great team, that it’s not going to win a lot of games, but in a weak division they feel they have at least a miniscule chance to sneak into the playoffs. Managers don’t win games, but as Grover has demonstrated time and again, they sure as hell can lose them. And that’s what pisses us off more than anything.

    So, with a tiny margin of error, M fans don’t need a manager who runs the game like a total fucking moron. And fans who shell out a C Note to attend Safeco sure as hell don’t want to see Grover handing the other team a W after what otherwise would have been a hard fought win.

    It kind of ruins the fun, you now? The last two losses in Toronto didn’t cost us any cabbage, but we’ll never get those eight hours back.

    As for the FO being disinclined to boot Grover with post-2006 cash due the SOB, that’s only part of the equation. If they fired the old man, replacing him with some guy who at least doesn’t lose games, they’ll surely put more butts in the seats.

  19. Edman said

    Of course I hate losing. But, trying to pin everything on Hargrove is putting things into a narrow focus. Being “winnable” means you don’t KNOW that having someone other than Hargrove at the helm could have won those game, either. Most they’d do, is maybe try something different. No guarantees that they’d be any more successful.

    Some of the blame goes to the players. They have to execute, regardless of who manages. To blame a lack of execution on Hargrove is just scapegoating.

    I don’t care if Hargrove, Rohn, Jesus, or Jerry Lewis manages the team. Well, maybe not Jerry Lewis. But, I’m realistic enough to know NOT TO EXPECT HARGROVE TO BE FIRED FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON. Yet, some go on about it….constantly.

    Unless the team totally declines……things aren’t going to change.

    I’m just curious. If the M’s turn things around, and do end up winning more games than they lose, when will Hargroves performance be acceptable.

    Oh, and Jason…..I really hate the list of former Cleveland players who made Hargrove a winner. Could we not say the same thing of Adam Jones, Jose Lopez, Raffy Betancourt, Jeff Clement, et al, if they form the nucleous of a great team? By your statement, it wouldn’t matter if a trained monkey ran the Cleveland Indians, instead of Hargrove. While it might be entertaining, it’s doubtful. One thing Hargrove did, was allow those players to meet their potentials, rather than impede them. We’ve seen the counter to that, in Piniella, who had no patience letting kids develop. I’m not sure which side of the fence I’m on…..but I do know with all this young talent the M’s have, I sure don’t want another Piniella. I’d rather lose games now, and give kids a chance to develop…..than worry too much about winning. Fine line, eh?

  20. VaughnStreet said

    Edman,

    No one is blaming Hargrove for a lack of execution. Go google “straw man” and you’ll know what I’m talking about. People are blaming Grover for making a mediocre team worse. How could you have a problem with that?

    Also, your list of Mariners (Jones et al) includes one guy who never played for the Mariners. Can you guess which one?

  21. Edman said

    Pssssssssstttttttt…….I was talking about the future…..not today. Tough concept?

  22. VaughnStreet said

    Raffy Betancourt plays for ???

  23. Edman said

    Hmmmmmmmm…..they are nearly .500, which at the beginning of the season, most accepted at their high end. And yet, he’s made them worse? Really?

    So, this was a 90 win mediocre team, that has fallen to become a bad .500 team?

    We’ll have to see how this plays out. But, many would say the team is playing better than they expected.

  24. MT said

    >But, trying to pin everything on Hargrove is putting things into a narrow focus. Being “winnable” means you don’t KNOW that having someone other than Hargrove at the helm could have won those game, either.

    Of course, it’s just not his fault, the players need to actually execute. True, other managers can be as dumb. But Hargrove is putting the team in a situation that is difficult for them to succeed/execute to their full potention.

    Having Everett bat left handed with the game on the line, having all your relievers used up, and having Putz warmup 3~5 times so that he can’t come in that day or the next day, is just retarded.

    Hargrove’s dumbness just goes on and on and on, to his stupid double switches during interleague play, his resistance towards using Eduardo Perez in situations that he was specifically brought in to be used in, using Mateo in a situation where he is just the worst possible choice, not once, but on a daily basis.

    The guy’s dumb.

  25. Goose said

    Edman, if we somehow go on a miracle run and win the world series this season, you know what I’ll be saying after the M’s record the final out in game 7?

    OH HELL YEAH!!

    followed shortly by..

    FIRE MIKE HARGROVE!

    Winning changes nothing!

    And any person in the Mariners blogosphere could of managed those Indian teams to winning seasons.

  26. Edman said

    So, having Everett bat in the Eighth on Saturday was stupid? He couldn’t come through to tie the game with a homerun? That stupid Mike, what was he thinking?

    He’s suppose to know they’d be playing 14 innings Saturday, and 11 Sunday? Y’all just crack me up. You get pissed when he doesn’t use all his bullets to win a game in the eighth or ninth, THEN have the kahona’s to rip him for not being more conservative? Which is it?

    Would you rather have him sit Putz, until the inning starts, so he doesn’t have a chance to get warm. That’s SIMPLE baseball, to warm your closer up at while your team is batting. He has to assume he’s gonna get a lead. He can’t wait until he does, to warm him up.

    You want to judge him….do it fairly. But don’t act like YOU knew the outcome of each inning, so that you’d know EXACTLY what to do. The games often dictate what each manager does. They have to think three moves ahead. They can’t WAIT to see what happens.

    If those are your best examples……they’re mighty lame.

  27. The Mariners need a manager who shows the desire to win – is not afraid to get in his players face. Who can make men who are not stars – all stars.

    Hargrove shows no desire to win. You will see it from the players because they are young and have the desire.

    I want a manager who will do what it takes to WIN!!

    Here is my reason why a manager should be fired.

    When Ichiro gets on base steals second and you have no outs and YET you have your hottest bat on the team up in Lopez and you make him sacrfice bunt!!!

    For the love of God my grandmother could do better than that!!!!

    Blade

  28. Edman said

    So, when you screwed up on the little league diamond, you felt it was totally OK for the coach to humiliate you in front of not only your teammates, but the crowd watching the game? That’s good managment.

    Does Mike yell at them during practice? I dunno, and damn sure you don’t either.

    Would you conclude that Joe Torre is a great manager? Is he anymore animated than Hargrove? Maybe, just maybe, it’s not about the displays you make, but about how you treat your players. Nothing wrong with handling things behind closed doors.

  29. M-kay, Edman, here’s a question for you:

    What specifically has Hargrove done to help the Mariners win? Give me 5 instances where you believe the M’s chances of winning were improved by a direct decision Hargrove has made (where another manager’s decision wouldn’t have helped the M’s chances).

    By any statistical analysis of this team, and by common sense from anyone who’s followed most of the M’s games this season, this team has most certainly underperformed. For the most part, this is a very talented ball club that is definitely capable of winning. Certainly some of that is on players like Adrian, Richie and Jarrod all being overpaid underacheivers. But Hargrove’s decision making — not just this weekend — has caused much, much more harm than good.

  30. DIQ said

    Edman = Andy Hargrove

  31. Hargrove is admittedly not a yeller. He does NOT yell during workouts and does not yell in the clubhouse — except on the rare occasion, such as earlier this season.

    But what does that prove? Nothing, except that he’s not a yeller.

  32. Celadus said

    Hargrove doesn’t use his bench efficiently, he consistently mismanages his bullpen and he doesn’t seem to understand how to pinch hit. He plays bad players where there are better players available.

    This is no bandwagon rant, he didn’t do any of those things well last year either. If anything the blogs have shown admirable restraint. If you don’t criticize Hargrove for his managing, you should never, ever criticize any other manager who has ever lived–a 12 year old with a year of Little League experience could outmanage Hargrove. Hell, a fairly intelligent potato could outmanage Hargrove.

    That being said, don’t call for Bavasi’s head for not firing him–that’s Lincoln’s call. It is probably taking a supreme act of will for Bavasi not to gnaw his own arm off in frustration.

    Even if you don’t like Bavasi (and there are definitely things not to like), he didn’t hire himself, and Hargrove didn’t hire himself.

    Things aren’t going to consistently improve until either (a) Lincoln is fired or (b) the general manager is given more authority in choosing (and firing) the manager. And as horrific a manager as Hargrove is, he’s a genius compared to Lincoln.

  33. Willmore said

    “So, having Everett bat in the Eighth on Saturday was stupid? He couldn’t come through to tie the game with a homerun? That stupid Mike, what was he thinking?”

    That’s not what we’re talking about. Everett should be used against righty relievers, because he does hit well from the left side of the plate. What’s we’re talking is when Everett is still in the against a lefty after the 7th inning. It’s inexcusible. Which is what happened in the 12th on saturday. On Friday, in the 7th inning, the same situation, a lefty reliever, and Everett is in the game. We were winning at the time, but that’s irrelevant, Pereze needs as many at bats as he can get, and that was a pefect opportunity for him. Hargrove screwed Petagine, now he’s doing the same with Perez. With Dobbs on the bench, there is absolutely no reason not to pinch hit Perez. Because if a righty reliever comes up the next time around, you can just put Dobbs in there.

  34. AK1984 said

    At this point in time, Carl Everett ought to be designated for assingment; subsequently, Chris Snelling should be recalled to replace him. Unfortunately, though, the only trade involving Everett that makes sense on any realistic level would be one wherein the Seattle Mariners dealt him to the Minnesota Twins for relief pitcher Kyle Lohse (7.22 ERA; 1.73 WHIP; .314 BAA; 43/22 K:BB ratio; $3,950,000 salary). If the M’s can’t find a trading partner for Everett, however, then there is nothing wrong with jus’ flat-out releasing him.

  35. J2D2 said

    While most of us would have been happy to know, at the beginning of the season, that the M’s would be at .500 at this point in the season, the problem is that the team itself has turned out to be better than that. Our run differential is STILL in the red. And we’re 4 games under .500. Compare that to Oakland where they’re allowing more runs than they’re scoring and their record is the inverse of the M’s right now: 48-44. Somehow, Macha has figured out how to squeeze extra wins out of their team. And he’s done that by winning the close, winnable games.

    Hargrove throws those games out the window whenever he gets a chance. That’s why we’re pissed here. Not because Hargrove doesn’t yell. Because even though we’re a mediocre team, if really anybody else were our coach, we’d easily have won a handful of the close games that were lost (while, I might add, wasting our bullpen on needless extra innings) and we’d be in first place right now. And at the beginning of the season, if you’d told me that we’d be good enough to be in first place but we’d be in last because Hargrove had wasted 6 or more close games, i would NOT have taken that. I would be annoyed and disillusioned like I am right now.

    As for Bavasi, I don’t believe he’s really the GM. I don’t believe that he has the authority to do the things we want him to do. I like the guy. But if I were him, I’d just walk out of this mess if I was that powerless to change it.

  36. J2D2 said

    [edit]
    our run differential is STILL in the *black* (sorry)

  37. MatthewCarruth said

    “At the start of the season the concensus on the internet was that the Mariners would not be a .500 team. If told that they’d be 4 games under .500 with 70 left to play, you guys would have concluded that was about right.”

    Who’s consensus was that? BP and ESPN? Pffft. I think the consensus among people who actually took the time to really look at this team was that they would be about a 83 win team +/- normal variance. It’s a quibble to be sure, but I’m tired of hearing that this was/is a losing ballclub. I heard it all winter and I don’t hear many people recanting their observations now that the team has performed better than they expected and more in line with those like myself who saw them as having 83 win or better talent. (notice the key use of the word talent)

  38. MatthewCarruth said

    re: the argument about whether Hargrove is to blame or the players who fail to execute.

    I have a hypothetical situation to put to you. Say a Delta Airlines officer walks into my office right now, comes up to me and tells me to fly their DC-LAX route. I try to do it and end up crashing the plane because I have no talent in terms of flying a 767. Whose fault is the crash? Is it mine for “failing to execute”? Or is it Delta’s for using somebody ill-equipped to fly their planes over better, more logical choices like trained pilots?

    Hargrove has consistantly put people in situations where they will almost surely fail. It’s not Everett’s fault that he sucks at hitting LHP, it’s not Willie’s fault he sucks at hitting in general. That’s just their level of talent and it’s well known. It’s Hargrove’s fault for choosing to use them in situations when he has CLEARLY better alternatives.

  39. I, for one, don’t think this current M’s roster is a mediocre team. I believe it’s a good team in the making, and that with all the youth on the roster, it’s no wonder that the M’s are very streaky. That’s why all along I’ve argued that Dan Rohn would make a better manager for THIS team than Hargrove. Rohn is far more familiar with these players than Hargrove could ever dream of being.

    Rohn’s certainly not without faults of his own. I’m curious how the veterans like Ichiro, Moyer, and Sexson would respond to him. Of course those guys generally don’t need the manager as much as the up-and-comers do. After all, isn’t that what managers pretty much do anyway — ride their veterans, when the mgr pretty much knows what to expect out of them, and guide the youngsters, who are still forming and molding into the MLB players they will become.

    With this team and this roster, you have to have a guy who knows how to stir the stagnacity out of the water. It’s not about yelling; it’s not about throwing a temper-tantrum. It’s about paying close attention and changing things when they obviously need to be changed.

    With as little as Perez has played specifically in the situations for which he was brought on board, I’m really starting to wonder if there is a serious miscommunication between Hargrove, Bavasi and CHowArmLincOng. There’s definitely no cohesive root system functioning there…

  40. Snave said

    What Paul said.

    I also believe the M’s are a team on the rise. I figured they would be doing about as good as they are at this point, maybe slightly better. I have to believe they might have a better record today if not for early-season slumps by Beltre and Sexson, and if not for Sexson’s continued difficulties at the plate, among other things. Seeing all the strikeouts and groundouts from those two has been discouraging. I like to believe they are both motivated, and that Beltre may be regaining some of his lost form…

    But if the team as a whole is mediocre, I think it is good to closely evaluate the manager. Do we have a mediocre manager managing a mediocre roster of players and working with a mediocre GM/front office?

    I think mediocrity has a tendency to breed. I would like to see Seattle use a manager who motivates his players, uses his bench a bit more, and uses his bullpen more wisely. I would also like to see the M’s hire a GM who can make the kind of trades that move the team forward, not backwards or sideways. I don’t find the trades of Eddie Guardado for Travis Chick and Asdrubal Cabrera for Eddie Perez anything to be excited about. There definitely IS NO “cohesive root system functioning there…”

    Hargrove obviously is a guy who gives up on players and/or doesn’t like to use his bench. Lawton, Guardado and Petagine all rotted on the Mariner bench, and all have departed. The Bloomquist argument continues to be enough to occupy another entire thread, but if Bloomquist is the kind of guy Hargrove likes, maybe the M’s should find Hargrove a utility guy who is a better ballplayer. But maybe then Hargrove wouldn’t like the new utility guy for some reason, and they new guy would rot on the bench. Sigh…

    I think the air is getting stale, and the M’s may need some fresh air soon. I think that if the team gets much lower in the standings or finds itself slipping out of contention, a managerial change should be made.

  41. Edman said

    I don’t care if Hargrove is fired. I also don’t think it’s necessarily a solution. Rohn could come in and be just as unsuccessful. It just makes some feel better to chop one head, than many.

    Hey, we could hire Larry, “Wear out my welcome” Bowa. You don’t get much more fired up than him. Of course, some of the guys in the clubhouse may not be happy with Larry’s “I can do it better than you” management style.

    Before you wish too hard, you better be sure you aren’t going to get worse than you expected.

  42. Jon Wells said

    Totally in agreement that Hargrove must go. Yesterday’s game was brutal. It seemed like Hargrove was anxious to get out Toronto in the regulation 9 after playing 14 innings on Saturday. He was probably pissed when Betancort hit the HR…

    How do you keep Jake Woods in a 2-1 game in the bottom of the 7th against Toronto’s best right-handed hitter, Vernon Wells? I can’t think of another mgr. in the majors that would use
    his 12th pitcher in that spot, no matter how many innings the team played the day before.

    Then, they get a run in the 8th (that would have tied the game if Woods hadn’t pitched to Wells), they get the tying run to third and he lets Bloomquist hit…against a right-handed pitcher. Apparently Eduardo Perez is never going to bat against a right-handed pitcher while Hargrove is managing. He never uses Perez unless the other team is out of righies in their bullpen…Even Dobbs would have been a better option in that spot.

    By the way, Jason, just heard you on KJR and you mentioned that Brandon Morrow hadn’t pitched yet in the minors. Why is that and any word on when he’s going to be assigned to a minor league team? I thought the whole idea of signing him so quickly was to get him pitching and get him bolting through the system ASAP…if he follows the Mark Lowe track, he could be in the Majors by next September!

  43. KB said

    Morrow pitched one inning in Peoria on 7/5…. It’d be nice to see him again sometime.

  44. Beanball said

    Hargrove can go, but then M’s games wouldn’t be as fun to watch because ot would be the end of the

    Mike Hargrove Drinking Game!

    Everytime Hargrove makes a boneheaded lineup subsitution take a drink.

    Everytime Hargrove misses a obvious lineup subsitution take 2 drinks.

    Each time he mismanages the bullpen take 3 drinks.

    Everytime Bloomquist is in the starting lineup, take 5 drinks.

    For each inning he remains in the starting lineup take 5 drinks.

    For every 4-8 batter that gets thrown out trying to take an extra base per Hargroves aggressive baserunning take 2 drinks.

    Bonus drink if the broadcast team mentions the new aggressive baserunning.

    If Mateo is brought in at a key point of the game to get a key out, finish the glass. (That way you’re on the way to the fridge when he gives up the go ahead run)

    Anytime he calls for a sac bunt in the wrong situation take 2 drinks.

    Anytime he doesn’t call for a sac bunt in a obvious situation with a obvious hitter, take 2 drinks.

    If any of the above actions happen in extra innings multiply action by 2!!!!!

    It’s not perfect but it makes the games more tolerable………..

    Enjoy!

  45. 1996Coug said

    Best. Drinking. Game. Ever.

  46. Ben said

    LOL…that game should get you nice & fucked up in about 3 innings.

  47. John Doe said

    Yet another Bavasi screw up was to sign Mateo for two years with an option for 2008. Could Lowe or Soriano be moved to the rotation in 2007? Lowe appears to have a good change.

  48. Ty said

    Time for the season old question: Who would you rather see go? Carl Everett or Mike Hargrove.

  49. KB said

    That is a tough one my man.

    Seeing Hargrove goes ensures that we’ll at least have someone different in there next year, although I think that’ll happen either way.

    Everett, however, is hurting us more directly by actually sucking at the plate. I think Crazy Carl is my pick.

  50. MatthewCarruth said

    I’m pretty sure that if Hargrove goes, the new manager removes Everett thus killing two annoying shrill geese with one double-barreled buck shotgun blast.

  51. gwangung said

    Well, getting rid of Everett will be easier than getting rid of Hargrove; to do the latter, it seems like you’ll have to deal with Armstrong and Lincoln.

    At least with the former, you only have to deal with one person….

  52. Oly Rainiers Fan said

    Jason: What was up with starting Rob Johnson in left field tonight? 3 catchers in the lineup? (and with 4 of the 6 RBI in the game).

  53. WAB said

    Jason, I see Jorge Campillo pitched tonight for our AZL team. Does he have any shot at a return to the majors in your opinion?

  54. The Rainier are short outfielders and they want RJ to get ABs… that’s all.

    Re: Campillo

    Not this year.

  55. Willmore said

    Jason, Yovanny Olivero went 9 shutout innings in Venezuela today. I know that those stats mean relatively little, but still. Do you see him getting a shot in the states ? 58.1 IP, 52 H, 12 ER, 10 BB, 42 K. 1.54 BB/9, an impressive stat for the VSL, 6.48 K/9 which might improve with maturation, and a very impressive 1.85 ERA.

    What do the scouts say about him ?

    On a different note, shouldn’t Valbuena be in California already ? 42/41 BB/K ratio pretty much says it all about him. And in the Cal league, he might break out some more power.

    Finally, do you have any news on Morrow ? Also, when do you think Tillman will make his first appearance ?

  56. Willmore said

    Oh, and lastly, Israel Nunez, does he have a shot ? He’s a 20-year old catcher in the VSL who seems to be developing some offensive skills, but at 20 years of age in the VSL, that’s not very impressive. Then again, catchers develop late. So what the consensus on him ?

  57. KB said

    I’m curious about Valbuena as well; after a slow start he’s really caught fire.

    Morrow pitched 13 days ago and hasn’t been heard of since…. I’m wondering what’s up with that as well.

    Tillman debuted in Peoria on 7/10/06, pitching 1 inning and giving up a hit.

    In general I thought we would have seen more of our top draft picks by now.

  58. VaughnStreet said

    I think the draft picks are suffering from Hargrove’s refusal to play the young guys.

  59. Willmore said

    I completely forgot that Tillman already pitcher … when’s he up again ? 🙂

  60. KB said

    That’s the question…. it’s been 8 days, you’d think Tillman would’ve appeared again, maybe even pitch more than an inning (I know, crazy talk).

    I guess the high-schoolers are just getting a dip in the water this year.

  61. lyle said

    i’d imagine tillman’s still getting a lot of work in, just with the pitching instructors and not in games.

    i recall hearing that his mechanics slipped some from junior to senior year, so i’m sure they’re pounding on some fundamentals. which is good, because having him come in and get roughed up could effect his entire career at this point.

    morrow not pitching, however, makes no sense to me. i thought this was the type of guy who had a shot at making the m’s by the end of the season, or at least at the start of next. and what, he’s pitched one inning? how does that fit in with the new strategy of aggressively pushing guys up through the system?

  62. Matthew said

    i thought this was the type of guy who had a shot at making the m’s by the end of the season, or at least at the start of next.

    You were grossly misinformed.

  63. lyle said

    You were grossly misinformed.

    okay, maybe this year is a stretch. so what’s wrong about looking for him to be in the rotation next year? or at least working with that goal in mind? (ie. giving him more than 1 ip in his first month of pro ball)

    i’m totally willing to admit that it’s not a good idea, but i don’t see why it shouldn’t be at least possible given the right set of circumstances and development.

    we’re talking about arguably the best pitcher in the (maybe more) arguably best conference in college baseball. someone who was cited above the other pitching prospects as not having as much potential, but having more of a tangible command of his mechanics.

  64. DIQ said

    Morrow will need more development time then most of the top college drafted pitchers.

    He’s just not as polished. They are fast-tracking him but he will be in the minors for atleast a year.

    I think the goal is to have him pitch at High A-AA this year.

    AA-AAA next year.

  65. DIQ said

    JAC,

    What’s the news with Adam Moore. Which position does the org see him playing in the future? C/1B/DH?

    Also is it possible that Mike Wilson gets promoted to AAA anytime this season?

    Yung-Chi Chen intrigues me, is his age what makes him more likely to be a back-up rather than a starter?

  66. Chen just doesnt do anything GREAT, he’s just GOOD at a lot of things. Unfortunately, one of them isn’t hitting for power.

    Moore — the M’s will keep saying he can catch until he can’t… but scouts don’t like his technique much. He’s a project, which means he’ll probably end up flaming out as catcher.

  67. DIQ said

    Thanks JAC.

    Great stuff on Lo.

  68. KB said

    Sounds like the M’s just signed 12 non-drafted free agents today. A few from Venezuela & the Dominican, but also one from Mexico and one from South Africa (per the M’s broadcast).

  69. slim said

    I’m not sure how long I can live in a world where Willie Bloomquist is a defensive replacement in CF in the 7th inning.

  70. Paul said

    Jason, is there any reason that Everett hasn’t been DFA’d and Snelling called up? I’ve been expecting this move to happen for the last month, but so far nothing.

  71. Willmore said

    Bavasi, Hargrove, Lincoln, Armstrong, take your pick.

  72. KB said

    I’ll add Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Babe the Blue Ox to that list.

  73. WAB said

    Feierabend (3 hit shutout) and Balentien (2 hits, 1 HR, 3 RBI, 1 BB) are owning down in San Antonio…

  74. Wlad is en friggin fuego.

    It’s GREAT to see him do this.

    And Wilson is sustaining success in AA, too.

  75. Wlad call up to AAA imminent? He’s not listed as being with a team. This happened with Adam Jones before his call up to the bigs…

    Link

  76. DIQ said

    I noticed that with Jones before he was called-up too. Interesting. It’d be cool but I kind of want him to get more time at AA.

    Either way, it’s not a bad idea to get his feet wet in AAA and if he struggles can work on the off-season on how to handle AAA pitchers.

    We’ll see!

  77. Willmore said

    No. It’s just a milb.com quirk. He’s still listed with the Missions, so that’s where he will be for now.

  78. Matthew said

    I feel like the Ms farm system has quite a bit of helium inside it. And for a major league team that’s really young in the first place, seems quite encouraging.

    Jason, do you feel like an updated scouting report on Wlad? It’s seems like all previous scouting reports in a nutshell went like “Great…..BUT he has to lower that K:BB ratio to have any shot.” And he’s cut his ratio IN HALF to under 2.5:1.

  79. garstar said

    I had a dream — I kid you not — two days ago, where I was looking at headlines on the internet and I saw this:

    Fox Sports MLB
    Mariners Hargrove fired — 2 hours ago

    I woke up and had to check to see if it was true. Of course, it wasn’t. At the same time, it bothered me more that I dreamed I was surfing the ‘net.

  80. HAHA…

    Hilarious.

  81. gomariners said

    As all i have to say is bring back Lou Pinnella

  82. marinerswinws said

    Agree Lou would make this team better.

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