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Notes and Stuff – 11.18.06

Posted by Jason A. Churchill on November 18, 2006

I have to empty my inbox, so here we go.

This is what I’ve been hearing around the league, some of it Mariners related – most of it not – but somewhat interesting anyway.

The San Diego Padres, with new skipper Bud Black pushing for more pitching, are after a number of mid-level free agent and trade-available bats, including the likes of David Dellucci, who, according to a reliable source, has very little chance of returning to Philadelphia.

The Pads, however, have expressed initial interest in a slew of starting pitchers, with southpaw Ted Lilly and righthanders Adam Eaton, Tomo Ohka and even Greg Maddux among them.

The San Francisco Giants are fairly active in trade talks, and many believe it would be a major surprise if they do not land a run-producing bat, whether Barry Bonds is re-signed or not.

But the Giants need pitching, too, and don’t have a lot of trade-worthy talent to spare. Like the M’s, they will likely come up short in one area or the other, due to a lack of viable options on the market this winter.

It appears that Peter McGowan and Brain Sabean are playing hardball with Bonds and his salary demands, but most in the industry seem to believe the third member of the 700-HR club will remain in San Francisco, despite rumors of Oakland, Chicago and Boston.

Mark Mulder and Vicente Padilla will get ridiculous contracts, as will Jason Schmidt – likely here in Seattle. I surveyed several team reps over the past week or so, and only two of the 12 believed Schmidt would end up anywhere else but Seattle.

One said Texas, the other said he thought Schmidt would end up with the Cubs. Hmmm.

Billy Beane is serious, by the way, about Barry Bonds, and he’s also rumored to be heavily interested in dealing for Vernon Wells.

Speaking of Wells… with the signing of Frank Thomas, the Blue Jays may be all over Gary Matthews to the tune of 3 years and 25 mil, so they can spin Wells to the White Sox for a package including center fielder Brian Anderson and lefthander Mark Buehrle.

The Red Sox want JD Drew and might be on the verge of pulling the trigger on a Manny Ramirez deal, once and for all. According to one Mets front office executive, they have already had extensive talks with the Red Sox about Manny, and are more than willing to include both Lastings Milledge and Aaron Heilman in the trade.

If Manny is out and Drew is in, probably for four years and 48 million or so, the Sox, who are presumably adding Daisuke Matsuzaka to their starting rotation, the club would then likely go after a right-handed hitting first baseman without spending tons of cash.

With the Mets nearly completing a deal for outfielder Moises Alou, however, things may change in a hurry.

The New York Yankees are the front-runners to land M’s first baseman Richie Sexson, if he’s traded this offseason.

The M’s are expected to sign one mid-level starting pitcher in the early stages of the winter, so they can work on the meat and potatoes of their wish list during the first 10 days of December, when many of the bid deals and signings occur.

Some think it’s Adam Eaton, but it really sounds like Ted Lilly and Tomo Ohka are the most likely candidates, with Tony Armas, jr, a distant third.

Gil Meche turned down the Blue Jays initial offer of 3 years and $23 million and is said to be asking for more than $9 million per. He might get it, just not here.

The rumors that the Baltimore Orioles are interested in Richie Sexson are true, as are the rumors that the Mariners would probably want Erik Bedard in return, which is laughable, but they’d sure ask for him.

The Colorado Rockies are willing to trade righty Jason Jennings, who is a free agent after the 2007 season, and the Mariners are interested – again. The Rockies may have asked for Adam Jones in preliminary talks, but the M’s have apparently already told Jones, who expressed concern for being traded this winter, that he isn’t going anywhere. It’s a rare occurance that a prospect has been told he’s staying put, so, with a grain of salt…

With the Cubs in the market for starting pitching, they have approached the Florida Marlins about Dontrelle Willis, and have asked the White Sox about Freddy Garcia, who thrived under Lou Piniella in Seattle.

The Marlins say Willis isn’t going anywhere, but they really ought to just take the best deal they can get, which is probably a pretty good haul. I’d think the Cubs would toss Rich Hill into a package that includes Felix Pie and others.

Dave Cameron is right about one thing, at least, when he says Dontrelle Willis is destined for a short career. While I don’t share his belief that Willis is out of baseball in as little as three years, I certainly believe he is a candidate to be very ordinary on the mound as his arm begins to seperate itself from the rest of his body with that throwing motion.

Here’s my favorite piece of news so far… Contrary to the beliefs of some within baseball, M’s uber scout Bob Engle is apparently not leaving the club to join Pat Gillick in Philly, as was speculated quite a bit this past summer.

Engle is the best scout in the system and has had his hands in on every Latin gem the club has landed since 2000, including Jose Lopez, Felix Hernandez and the newest signee, shortstop Carlos Truinfel.

You can make the argument that Engle is more responsible for the positives on the M’s roster than anyone else, and ya know what, you’d win that argument, too.


88 Responses to “Notes and Stuff – 11.18.06”

  1. Alex said

    What would the Yankees be willing to give up for Sexson? I’m assuming Philip Hughes isn’t one of the guys we would be getting in return.

  2. Probably safe to assume that we’d get total crap back from the Yanks for Sexson.

  3. Goose said

    Philip Hughes for Richie Sexson.

    Man, that’s a nice pipe dream to think about.

  4. Mr. Egaas said

    Good stuff. Really, good stuff.

  5. Brett said

    I heard the Yanks may be willing to turn around and deal Humberto Sanchez. Sexson for Sanchez? Think it could happen?

  6. I guess I’d take that deal, but the M’s should be able to get a little more than a B level pitching prospect who experienced a sore elbow in a deal for Sexson.

    And no, Hughes, one of the top few best pitching prospects in the game right now with Homer Bailey and Andrew Miller, is certainly not coming back in that trade scenario.

  7. drdetecto said

    Outstanding column all the way. ::golfclap:: :- )

    Didn’t know the Red Sox were being offered so much (two glamor ML-ready blue chippers, plus) for Manny. But that makes sense, since Manny’s contract (with 1-year extension) is going to leave some team in a far better position than whoever buys Lee and Soriano. Manny will be far cheaper, and considerably better, than either, so the talent cost figures.

    Milledge and Heilman and ?, though, wouldn’t have guessed that.

  8. Salty Dog said

    I could live with adding Schmidt and Lilly to the rotation. Sure, we’d undoubtedly overpay for both with 4 year contracts, but it’d make the team a legit playoff contender (IMHO).

    Still have no idea what the team’s plans are for adding someone at LF/DH. We hear a lot of talk about adding pitching, but almost nothing about the offensive side.

  9. wsm said

    On the free agent front, the offensive upgrades are Drew, Bonds, and Dellucci. An argument can be made for Catalanotto as well. Beyond those guys the potential for an improvement over Broussard is dubious.

  10. Edman said

    Thankfully, the “Prospects are God” crowd don’t run the M’s organization. Trade Sexson for a B level prospect, and conclude Hughes is too much? Give me a break. Hughes might be out or range, but it DAMN WELL better be an “A” prospect in return. Especially, when you give up 100+ RBI a season. Just a bit curious here….but where do you replace those RBI? Where do you replace the power threat in the middle of the line-up.

    Just cracks me up how some feel the need to have “value” instead of production. Last I saw, teams don’t get credit awards for having the best financial deals in regard to players. Forget what Sexson is paid….it’s totally unimportant. He’s budgeted and paid for….period.

    Still cracks me up how some regard Drew, who is the offensive equivalent to Gil Meche. Both have tons of potential, but neither has ever crossed that threshold. Let me see him actually have two consecutive quality seasons, then I’ll consider changing my position. Besides, for those of you who think you must have “value”…..is Snelling’s potential (and much lower payroll) worth replacing at over twenty times the cost?

    Amazing to me, how so many “in the know” fans, have jumped off the Sexson ship……only to have no answers to replace him.

    Sexson won’t be traded for ANY “B” level prospect….not now….not ever. Only way he’s leaving is if some team ponies up actual help. Seattle doesn’t have anyone who can even remotely replace Sexson’s numbers. Not only that, you’ll kill Ibanez and Beltre’s recent resurgence for the same reason Sexson struggled for parts of this season……NO PROTECTION.

  11. Digger said



  12. Jerry said

    Good stuff Jason.

    Always nice to hear inside scoops on the offseason.

    Is it safe to say that Sexson is a lot more available than he was a few weeks ago? I would hope so. In this market, the M’s could do well in moving him.

    Here are some trades that I think are pretty reasonable for Sexson. Let me know what you think:

    -to the Yanks for Humberto Sanchez and Chris Garcia? Maybe Melky Cabrera as well?

    -to Baltimore? I think that Bedard is off the table, but the Orioles have a lot more pitching prospects than that. If I were Bavasi, I would start off talking about Bedard, then ask for Daniel Cabrera. He would be a great guy to bring in. Beyond that, the Orioles have a ton of near-MLB-ready starters such as Adam Loewen, Hayden Penn, and Garrett Olson. Radhames Liz is another real interesting arm. The Orioles have Kris Benson, Jaret Wright, Bedard, Cabrera, and Rodrigo Lopez already, and are in a good position to deal a starter.

    San Fran: The Giants are looking to bring in a ‘young’ impact bat. Sexson is way young for that club. A package of Jonathan Sanchez and Eddy Martinez-Esteve could work. If the Giants were willing to sell low on Noah Lowry, that would definitely be worth it.

    LA Dodgers: this is the dark-horse candidate. They needed to add a power hitter before JD Drew left, and may be desperate if they fail to add a big-name player. This isn’t a dumb club (unlike Balt and SF), so the M’s aren’t as likely to clean up in a deal. But they have a ton of talent, and could put together a good package.

    LA Angels: not likely because they are in our division. But the Angels have vowed to make big acquisitions this year, and they badly need to add a power hitter to help protect Vlad. They also have a hole at 1B. If I were Bavasi, I would take the best package available, regardless of where it came from. The Angels have one of the deepest farm systems in baseball, and could definitely put together a good offer. But Stoneman is notoriously anal about trades, and it just isn’t likely.

    Any other potentials?

  13. Jerry said


    Here is why you always sound stupid:

    -you rely on totally irrelevant stats like RBI

    -for a blogger, you have the typical housewifes understanding of how to build a roster. Sexson isn’t nearly as difficult to replace as you think. Getting what you call a ‘B’ prospect for him could make a HUGE difference in how the club does in the standings long-term. You seem to overvalue veterans to the point of not recognizing their failings. Legit elite players are worth the money, but paying B+ ‘stars’ big money is really dumb. You don’t seem to be making this distinction.

    -you don’t seem to grasp where the M’s are right now as a club. They are not in a position to contend in 2007 with a few minor roster tweaks. They need to focus on the long-term. Trading Sexson is the best way to build a good team in 2007, but will really pay dividends in 2008. For a club in the M’s position, and knowing what is available in free agency and via trades, the M’s aren’t in a position to contend immediately. You need to adjust your focus.

    -you construct lots of straw man arguments. For instance, you suggest that nobody who advocates trading Sexson has any idea of how to replace him. The fact is, 1B is the easiest place to find cheap help. The M’s could move Ibanez or Broussard there, and bring help at corner OF or DH. It opens up a lot of roster and finanical flexibility. There are literally dozens of players the M’s could add who would provide 90% of the production for less than half the price.

    -you don’t seem to understand what the M’s have to work with right now, and what their real needs are. The M’s need pitching. Badly. If they deal Sexson, they can simultaneously obtain cheap young pitching in return AND clear money off the books to get more pitching. The offense has enough players that should improve next year. Betancourt, Lopez, Snelling, Beltre, and Johjima are all good bets to improve next season. The M’s can literally run out any person at DH and get better production. Thus, if the M’s do nothing, the offense should improve. The pitching will not fix itself.

    -finally, the M’s need to build a club that suits their home park and the talent they already have. Sexson is never going to do well in Safeco, and replacing him for a player that will is a good idea. But more generally, the M’s should be looking to build a team around pitching, defense, and lefty hitters. Sexson doesn’t fit into any of those needs. The M’s should try their best replace him with a better defensive player, move Ibanez to DH, and bring in a good defensive LFer. They already have a great core of defensive players in Yuni, Beltre, Lopez, and Ichiro. Jones should also be a plus defensive player, and Snelling is above average. Their park is always going to supress offense. And power hitters are always overvalued. The M’s need to recognize what type of team is well suited to their resources, what is available to them, and what will work best in their home park. Again, Sexson doesn’t fit into that model well at all.

    Really, you don’t seem to get things that most knowledgable fans take for granted.

  14. thr33niL said

    Good writeup JC.

    A guy I hope the Ms go hard after is Jason Jennings. Watching him some this year, if you figure he gets a little run support and let him pitch in Safeco half his starts (and out of Colorado), you have yourself a legit TOR pitcher

  15. Orlandu said

    Good news about Bob Engle. He’s done a lot for the Mariners organization.

  16. Edgar said

    Ok Jerry I’m getting a little tired of some of the things you keep saying. His argument has a bunch of holes in it. I’ll give you that. It’s also a feeling held by many fans which makes it an important factor when it comes to dealing Sexson. If we trade Sexson, I think it’s likely that we are going to need to eat ~3 million of his salary for next year and the same for the year after that. We might be able to get one decent prospect in return. I don’t think we’d get anyone we could pop into the rotation but we could probably add another #3/#4 projected SP to our farm system.

    So then you need to look at who you use this money on in FA to improve our pitching because I agree that starting pitching is our key need. The fact is that $11 million extra on our payroll isn’t going to help our rotation. There just isn’t really anybody good out there this year that you need an extra $11 million to get. I’m pretty sure that the M’s are going to get Schmidt and a guy like Eaton. They can do this without clearing up payroll. So what do you want to do with this money, just stick it under the mattress. DM is already gone and we aren’t going to sign 3 retarded starting pitching FA deals this offseason. Two is plenty, thank you very much. I think there is an argument to be made that we could use the extra payroll to go after a guy like JD Drew but I don’t know if he even wants to come here.

    The major thing that you say that gets me is that you act like our roster needs a major overhaul. I don’t know if you actually watch the team very often but I know you love prospects. That’s all well and good but prospects don’t help your team win until they are actually in the big leagues. We have a better team than you think. You’re going to need to come to terms with this and switch out of rebuilding mode. I’d argue that we have above average players at every position on the field. Our bullpen is stacked to destroy teams. Our only problem is our starting pitching. The thing is that we do have guys in our minors who can help us out with this. We have 2 spots that are locked. We are signing 2 guys this offseason to longterm deals whether we like it or not and our AAA pitchers are going to fill that last spot. We don’t have to trade Sexson. We can trade him, but we really do need to find somebody to spend that money on. Otherwise you just made the Mariners richer and the team worse. I know, our Wins/Payroll ratio gets better but that doesn’t make us a better team.

    We are a good enough team to compete next year. We should go .500. We are a better team than last year without making any moves this offseason. With a little luck and our youth developing into some of their potential, I don’t see any reason why playoffs are unreasonable. We will have a more productive offense than last year because of Snelling and not Everett in the lineup. We will prevent runs better than last year because our starters sucked (5.3 R/9). Our starting pitching was really horrible last year. Felix will be better. Washburn won’t be much worse. Whoever takes over Meche and Pineiro’s spots will improve our rotation. Then AAA guys can fight over the last spot. I’m actually excited for next year because I think we’ll be a good team next year and I haven’t been able to say that for a while.

    This last part about building a team to suit your park is also kinda annoying. I really doubt that these type of roster moves help you that much. Sure you can build the rotation and lineup to do slightly better at home but then they are going to do slightly worse on the road and everything is going to even out in the end. You can’t just fill your team with lefty hitting or teams will just start LOOGYs against us. Balance is a good thing.

  17. Jerry said


    It is funny that your comments are posted as a refutation of my ideas, because, in reality, most of the stuff that you say is pretty much the same as what I was posting.

    I’ll just focus on the differences:

    First, I think that you are underestimating the trade market for Sexson. I see the M’s getting some very good packages for Sexson. If the Orioles would trade Daniel Cabrera for him, the M’s would be adding a guy whose stuff is right up there with Felix’s. If the M’s could get Humberto Sanchez from the Yankees, he would step in as one of our better young players immediately. No wait in the minors. Him over Baek would be a big upgrade, and any other prospects on the side would be gravy.

    Perhaps I am overestimating the market for Sexson. If the M’s don’t eat any of his salary, you are probably looking at a package like Sanchez. If they do eat a bit of his salary (not a ton, just enough to even it up to the average $$$/Yr value), then you are looking at a good package. If not, then just hold on to Sexson until next offseason. No biggie.

    I am not saying that the M’s should just dump Sexson for nothing. If that is the case, keep him. No harm done.

    Finally, I am not saying that the M’s should fill the whole roster with lefty bats and lefty pitchers. What I am saying is that this should be a major consideration with any player who is going to take up nearly 20% of the payroll. Why spend premium money on a player who is going to struggle at home? That doesn’t make sense to me. Look at Sexson’s home/road splits: Safeco is killing him. The polar opposite is Ibanez. The M’s picked him up cheap, and, because he is prefectly suited to Safeco, they get a bargain. The M’s already have RH hitters in Lopez, Johjima, Betancourt, and Beltre. Why not invest the big money in lefty hitters who will perform like Ibanez (or better?). Then, use the rest to fix the rotation, which is the real need.

    Finally, given your comments, do you really think that M’s are serious contenders? You yourself state that they are a .500 team. This season, that would be enough to get you just past the Rangers for 3rd place, and 12 games behind Oakland in the standings. It will take a lot of luck for the M’s to contend. I don’t think that moving Sexson would necessarily change that, particularly if the M’s effectively switch him for better pitching. The M’s are going to live and die by their ability to keep other clubs from scoring. Guys like Felix, Washburn, and three up-for-grabs spots in the rotation are much more important than Sexson. If the M’s replace Sexson’s bat with a good LH hitter, and manage to improve the defense significantly (which won’t be difficult) they will have a better shot to contend.

    But even if the M’s have an excellent offseason, they are still a long-shot. They are an improving club. Contending in 2007 is a good goal, but the first priority should be 2008-2009, when guys like Felix, Lopez, Betancourt, etc will be hitting their peaks. This is a young club. Going into the offseason in win-now mode is the best way to mess that up.

  18. Edgar said

    I guess I just felt like you don’t have any hope for our team performing well next year and I don’t agree with that. I think that almost all players in our lineup will be getting better next year and our starting pitching should at least be league average. I’m also not really scared of any of the other teams in our division. I’m not against trading Sexson in theory because he is overpaid for what is is providing the team.

    There is probably a decent trade market for him and his contract is seeming more reasonable compared to the other FAs availible. I just don’t know if the prospect we get in return is going to be much better than what we already have availible. If we sign 2 FA pitchers, we’ll have 4 SP rotation spots locked up for 3 years. This will mean that SP will not be that big of a weakness. I’d rather have 1 FA pitcher signed and trade Sexson for a valuable prospect we could plug into the rotation but I guess I feel like the FO is going to sign 2 FA pitchers no matter what. If they don’t, I’ll be impressed.

  19. Willmore said

    Soriano signs with the Cubs for an insane amount – 8 years, 136 mil. This might prove to be the worst contract since the Chan Ho Park signing.

  20. marinermutt said

    And Park might be someone the M’s should look at depending on his demands. Pitching is a premium and the cost is running sky high.

    I’m not suggesting he’ll pitch like he did in his Dodger days, but he might eat some innings which we need.

  21. warner28 said

    This is a year when smart teams fill their holes with 1 and 2 yr. deals and get out of the way.

    I would rather pay a 6 million dollar player 11 million for 1 yr. than 9 for 4yrs.

    Of course they should have done the same last year and didn’t so I am not liking the odds.

  22. At this pace, the M’s will be sending Washburn to the Cards for Albert Pujols.

  23. Matthew C said

    Guess this means the Cubs ain’t in the running for Schmidt anymore

  24. Edman said

    Housewife’s knowledge, Jerry? You freakin’ know-it-all prig.

    Don’t know what the M’s need? And you’re idea is to throw the offense away, and concentrate on pitching?

    Sexson not so hard to replace?

    Really? Firstbaseman are a dime a dozen? Forget his position. How many righthanded power hitters can hit it out of Safeco consistantly? Balance, Jerry, balance. You have to have righthanded power too. You’re probably one of those who never got over the idea of putting a cheaper Petagine at first.

    You’re probably one of those who are in the “Benuardo” crowd at firstbase.

    You want to throw everything away, for what you saw in ONE season, fine. But, at least I can see beyond last season…..let me know when you can do the same. You don’t get better, in the long-term, by completely throwing away the present.

    And please, don’t pretend that you’re knowledge is somehow superior, because it’s not. Because you say it, doesn’t make it so……thankfully.

  25. Willmore said

    No, but if we all think so … maybe we have a point.

    Edman, why do you even come here if you obviously have no interest in the articles, the discussion or the people here ? Why not just lurk somewhere where there are a lot of your kind ?

    And Balance ? If we have balance right now, we’re fucked. The problem with this team is that it is imbalanced, we have no power lefty bat, and without that the team will never succeed at Safeco. The reason to focus on the pitching however, is because the offense didn’t lose us the season last year, the pitching did, and because there are no power lefties available except for Bonds and I don’t want us to go there.

    Pitching is fixable in the short and long-term (at least it was at the start of the off-season). Now, if we get some nice pitching prospects in return for Sexson, I’m all for it, because he is not why we win games. If we lose him and get a good pitcher, it’s basically a fair trade in terms of win values. First base is the easiest position to replace, because there are at least a dozen pretty good hitters in the minors who can’t field and would make nice major-leaguers, if there was an open position at 1st or DH. Pitching on the other hand is the scarcest resource because there are never enough good pitchers to fill out rotations.

    You can’t think about the future by blinding yourself at your current teams deficiencies, and hitting is not the biggest one.

  26. Edman said

    Who’s the “WE”. You mean the folks here that dominate the conversation? Millions of German’s thought Hitler was right…..so, please don’t expect me to follow the “if the masses think so, it must be right” philosophy. You speak for everyone, my friend?…..Or just those with whom your opinion aligns?

    No interest in the articles? How in the world did you come up with that little gem? If you want a “praise me for I have spoken” forum, well, I guess that’s up to Jason. Because it’s written, it’s suppose to be right? Other opinions are acceptable, especially if they call into questions theories CAN have a different point of view?

    No lefty power bats? Hmmmm, while Ibanez isn’t a masher, I’d still consider him a power-hitter. Why is it so hard to have both? Why couldn’t another power hitter be added, without simply discarding Sexson, for the sole reason that he’s a righthanded hitter?

    And, Sexson isn’t WHY we win games? What single player is? But, you sure don’t get BETTER creating another hole, expecially for prospects. One of the greatest lines of crap in baseball is the “Anyone can play firstbase” thinking. Yes, it’s by far the easiest to hide someone who can’t play anywhere else, but you act as if the minor leagues are bursting over with great hitters who can’t find a spot. Here’s a clue……if they were great hitters, teams would FIND a spot for them. Lull yourself to sleep with that kind of thinking, if you want….but I know better.

    LaHair is as good a power hitting prospect as we have in the minors, but he’s not ready. By the time he’s ready, Richie’s contract will be up. I’m all for waiting, rather than go get another Bazardo, Chick, etc…..simply because they are “prospects”. Some team wants to send someone with Felix type potential, I’d listen. But, “B” prospect SUCK…..SUCK…..SUCK. We have plenty of our own…..adding more doesn’t make anything better.

    You have a NEED to be right….well, maybe you and a few others can pat yourselves on each others backs, while you declare your brillance. That’s up to Jason, as to what kind of forum he wants. But, the very idea that “Majority Rules” is what’s right…..is all wrong…..and if you can’t see that, then sad days for you, my friend.

  27. Knuckles said

    “Who’s the “WE”. You mean the folks here that dominate the conversation? Millions of German’s thought Hitler was right…..so, please don’t expect me to follow the “if the masses think so, it must be right” philosophy. You speak for everyone, my friend?…..Or just those with whom your opinion aligns?”

    Took the idiot a while, but he finally brought up Godwin’s Law. You’re nothing if not predictable. By the way, “German’s” is possessive, “Germans” (no apostrophe) is plural.

  28. JH said

    First basemen floating around the minors who could reasonably be expected to provide 85-90% of Sexson´s value for less than 1/10th the price:

    Carlos Pena
    Erubiel Durazo
    Roberto Petagine
    Josh Phelps
    Chris Carter
    Paul McAnulty
    Justin Huber
    Joe Koshansky
    Hee Seop Choi

    These are guys who are either blocked, played the year hurt, or are former major leaguers with the upside to be league average first basemen. None of them would be difficult to obtain to replace Sexson. Several of them already have career .800 ops´s in the majors, and only Durazo out of that group is over 30.

    Yeah, you don´t want a roster full of those guys, but you also have to be smart about where to make your big investments. Sexson´s a solidly above average player being paid like an elite hitter. There are a lot better ways to spend $14 million a year.

  29. Edman said

    Why don’t you and Willmore go have a grammer lovefest. It’s people like you that ruin places like this, by constantly not hearing their words, and only seeing what’s typed.

  30. Edman said

    Again, JH…..tell me how many teams are rewarded for their use of budget, and not winning a series or a pennant?

    Who cares what he’s paid? You form the opinion that those dollars WOULD BE better spent elsewhere…..when they could also be spent on even worse players.

    He’s budgeted and paid for….get over it and remove it from the debate. Unless you have a bird in hand, what he makes is meaningless.

  31. JH said

    Players can be traded, Edman, and money can be spent in better ways. That´s kind of what this whole conversation is about.

  32. Jerry said


    Edman, when everyone tells your you’re wrong, you are probably wrong.

    Listen, nobody is saying that the M’s should just ditch Sexson for nothing. I firmly believe that the offers the M’s get for Sexson will surpise people. I am thinking along the lines of the package the Tigers put together for Gary Sheffield. This would be even more likely if the M’s eat some of his contract. It is currently backloaded, so simply evening out the years could get it done. If they don’t get a good offer, and all that they can get for him is a mediocre pitching prospect, then don’t do it. Simple as that.

    More generally, I just don’t think this is the M’s year. The M’s have some serious holes, and the players and funds they would need to become legit contenders just aren’t there this offseason. Personally, I would prefer to see them blow the whole team up, like the Marlins did last offseason. Trade Sexson, Ichiro, Soriano, and Beltre, and rake in prospects and young players.

    But even if they don’t go that far (which is almost guaranteed), the team should seriously consider trading Sexson and Soriano. The market for those guys is likely to be good. They can fill in the holes with cheaper players (JH brought up some interesting names, like Erubiel Durazo and Joe Koshanski). Craig Wilson is another possiblity. Or they could add OFers and move Ibanez to 1B. Lots of options.

    I can’t disagree more with your “Who cares what he’s paid?” point of view. That is the best way to end up with a bunch of stupid contracts. With salaries going through the roof right now, this is the time to be frugal. Sign value players to shorter-term deals, or trade for players who might do OK with the M’s, and wait for better options later on. In this market, the prospects you get are way way more valuable.

    Seriously, just because you have some money doesn’t mean you have to blow it on crap. Be patient. And simmer down.

  33. JH said

    And Edman, tell me how many teams are ¨rewarded for winning¨ when they sink elite money into non-elite players.

  34. JH said

    And Edman, tell me how many teams are ¨rewarded for winning¨ when they sink elite money into non-elite players.

  35. Knuckles said

    “Why don’t you and Willmore go have a grammer lovefest. It’s people like you that ruin places like this, by constantly not hearing their words, and only seeing what’s typed.”

    I absolutely love it when dipshits like you are so full of themselves and their opinions that they cannot be bothered to use the basic rules of grammar and spelling. Communication succeeds best when you communicate clearly. The downside to the internet, in my opinion, is that not only does it encourage fuckchops like you to crap their moronic and ridiculously ill-informed opinions all over the web (you post on the PI board, don’t you?) as if they are fact, but it also has encouraged laxity in proof-reading one’s own work. Clarity and accuracy in writing is never bad, and if you think othwerwise, you are wrong.

    I hear your words, Eddie (well, I’m actually reading them, to be precise). The problem is that you really have nothing to say. As far as you’re concerned, everything is hunky dory in Marinerville, and anyone else who suggests otherwise is a fool. To quote Jerry: If everyone else thinks you are wrong, then you are probably wrong. It applies to you just as much as it applies to the president.

  36. Edman said

    Let us see here. For rendering an opinion that counters those who feel themselves highly educated on the subject of baseball, I’ve been called an idiot, dipshit, one with a “housewife’s knowledge” of baseball…….

    Glad there’s room for opinions other than the golden few.

    While I’ve disagreed with Jason in the past, we’ve always been civil……some of you should try the same…..rather than childish name calling.

  37. JH said

    You might want to reread some of your initial offerings in many of the threads where people come out and insult you, Edman. Your tone has hardly been cordial.

  38. Dave Cairns said


    What is Seattle’s reaction to TJ Bohn being picked up on waivers by Atlanta ?

    I guess they take the risk putting him through waivers. This may also ease the congestion in the OF in the next 2 – 3 years.

  39. Willmore said

    TJ Bohn was never going to be much of anything. He might be a servicable 4th-5th OFer for Atlanta, but chance are he won’t last long.

    Edman, it’s OK to argue and have a difference of opinion, but a conversation with you is much like a speech delivered to a wall. You might hear some incoheret echo in response, but in essence, the words were wasted. The problem is not that you lack knowledge or intelligence, it’s that you fail in analysis and conclude things that are illogical.

    Majority is not always right. Which is why the knowledgable Mariners fans are in the vast minority amid a sea of incoherent latte-fans. This is one of the places where many of the posters are in that minority, and if the majority of them is saying something, it’s probably true. It’s what can be called a scientific consensus. Such a consensus is obvious to anyone who knows enough about baseball to recognize the correct logic in its analysis, but may seem completely lacking to people who do not perceive it.

    Edman, if you feel the need, post here, but if you see that you’re in the vast minority, have the common sense to shut your mouth and listen for a change. If you keep saying the same thing over and over again, it’s not going to endear you to the rest of the posters. And for the love of .50c hot dogs, try to open your mind and consider that you’re wrong once in a while, the world will not explode if you change your position on a subject.

  40. marc w. said


    I can’t speak for everyone in the city of Seattle, much less the organization, but TJ Bohn won’t be missed at all. I mean, I watched him a lot in Tacoma; he’s a great org guy, but was never a prospect. The M’s did a nice thing and got him some ABs in the big leagues this year, but with actual prospects coming up from AA, and with Adam Jones still around, there wouldn’t be any place for him to play. It’s nice he’ll have a shot to do something in Atl., but I’m not exactly sure what, since they’ve got a lot of OF depth too (unless Thorman moves back to 1B exclusively).
    TJ has a great arm, and might be a nice little late-innings defensive replacement, but given the mania for large bullpens these days, it’s tough to justify the roster spot for something like that. I think this was less a ‘risk’ of him getting picked up and more of a favor to a guy who was going to be locked out.

    If the rumored deal of Jeremy Reed happens, then the M’s ‘overcrowding’ problem is officially over. All good news for Snelling, I guess…

  41. matt said

    Dude why don’t some of you nerds get a frekin life. Who the bleep cares about grammar??? And if Edman feels he is right then you guys should accept it. Just because he is in the minority doesn’t mean he is necessarily wrong. Go ahead and try to prove him wrong but you don’t have to resort to name calling, this is the kind of the thing that ruins blogs…

  42. Goose said

    Good grief, this thread is starting to spiral out of control.

  43. drm said

    What’s the rumored Jeremy Reed deal?

  44. thr33niL said

    Dave over at USSM is saying that a deal may be in place for Jeremy Reed. And that it may go down in the next day or two. He’s pretty much mum about any details but has said “players” are in tow. So it may be a multi-player deal. He ruled out anything involving Jason Jennings (damn) but thats about it.

  45. JJ said

    Hey Knuckles, I really don’t think people care about spelling and grammar on a sports forum, but since you made such a big deal out of it …

    “Clarity and accuracy in writing is never bad, and if you think othwerwise, you are wrong”

    Check your spelling before you go on a rant about it.

  46. Goose said

    Unless he’s just a smaller piece of a bigger package, I don’t see much coming back our way. I just cna’t see Reed having much trade value right now.

    But, there really isn’t room for him to play everyday here anymore, now or in the future with Jones on the brink. Hopefully it’s to a club that can give him an everyday chance.

  47. There are only a few clubs that make sense for Reed, and one is Florida, and we’ve talked about that here before.

    And yeah, that’s a hint.

  48. Jerry said

    Jason Vargas!

  49. From what I’m hearing it’s a minor league starting pitcher coming to Seattle, not a major league player.

    No word on whether other players from either side are involved, but there is a third side to all this, but I don’t want to spew everything.

  50. Jerry said

    Actually, Vargas got traded to the Mets today.

    I would actually hate to see Reed leave, although it is definitely best. The M’s just aren’t a good fit for him.

    But trading him now, they are selling very low on a player who has a lot of potential. Hopefully, if the M’s do move Reed to Florida (or anywhere) it will work out for both clubs. But I think that M’s will be unlikely to win that trade.

    But you never know. The Juan Pierre signing certainly won’t hurt.

  51. The Vargas deal is connected to the Reed trade.

  52. Knuckles said

    Who the bleep cares about grammar? Well, I do. Willmore very ably makes the point that I didn’t really have time to make (curse being gainfully employed). Edman’s arguments are built solely around the notion that the FO is right, and anyone with the temerity to consider their moves ill-advised (or even downright stupid) couldn’t possibly be right. Those fellows in the front office are the guys getting paid to make the moves, and therefore they MUST be right. That’s not analysis, that’s rolling over to get your belly scratched.

  53. Knuckles said

    That’s the thing, JJ. Anytime you rip someone a new one about grammar and spelling, you will inevitably screw up something in that post. It ought to have it’s own law, much like Murphy’s or Godwin’s.

  54. ChickenBoneGrease said

    Just speculating……..would you favor a Reed for Petit trade?

  55. Edman said

    Applying a little prejudice, Knuckles? Where did I align myself with Mariner management in this thread? The things I stated are MY BELIEFS. Got that? Mine. If the M’s happen to agree, more power to them.

    Do I think it’s smart to hold on to Sexson?…..absolutely. Do I think it’s cutting your nose off to spite your face, to trade the ONLY true power bat in your line-up?……absolutely. Would I love to have Richie making minimum wage, so the M’s could have even more to spend…….who wouldn’t?

    Just show me where and how ANY of my comments even remotely tie back to management being right? It’s plain and simple LOGIC. You don’t agree, because in your mighty errogance, you don’t want to deal with reality. You want to play life in fantasy land, where bad contracts are simply moved. Where you can go to the Island of Lost Careers, and revive a forgotten minor league career, for the sake of “better use of payroll”. Where prospects aren’t considered the high risk-low yield reality that they are.

    I find it funny when posters like you, Willmore, et al…….jump on me because I see the reality (aka likelyhood) that NOBODY is going to pony up the kind of prospect Seattle would need to get in return, in order to move Sexson. Instead, you pounce on me, and anyone else who dares disagree with your masterful analysis.

    I don’t agree that Sexson is easily replaced. And, quite frankly, the list of those poor lost careers, doesn’t impress me either. Not when you give up 40 HR – 120 RBI potential, in Sexson. Those guys are rare. You treat it as if there are tons of those guys available. Is he overpaid? Name a major free agent who didn’t get overpaid? It’s life in the fast lane……either accept it, or go root for the A’s, because they get the most out of a little budget.

    You care about grammer, good on ya. But, it’s not yours, or Willmore’s, or anyone else’s duty to bash anyone here who has a comment. Hell, Jason’s made his own mistakes….and guess what, I somehow live without rubbing his nose in it. Why? Because it’s not important. I pay attention to what he’s saying, not how the words were formed.

    BTW, people other than you are gainfully employed, and don’t any more time than to get their thoughts down. We don’t have time to spellcheck…grammer check….etc. And surely, not to please you and Willmore.

    Go to http://www.perfectgrammerismyfetish.com, if you want perfection.

  56. Ya mean typing in the dark at 3 am causes me to make errors and typos? Noooo… I’m perfect. If I misspel something, it’s probably just a test for all y’all. HA!

    Umm, yeah, ChickenBone, Reed for Petit would be sweet, but it’ll never happen.

  57. Edman said

    Just because…….

    If u dont lyke the wai i spel, i sugjest u gro sum tolerence.

  58. haha.

    Back to topic fellas.

  59. thr33niL said

    I smell another “no return” Bavasi move here. We get the obligatory fringe failed pitching prospects (that are 26 and still have some sort of potential), ship them off to AA and never hear from them again. Meanwhile, Reed starts in CF for Florida and ends up hitting .300 with a .350 OBP in 2007.

    I can see it now… argh.

  60. Goose said

    Regardless what he does in Florida, the fact is that he’s not even going to get the chance to do it here. He’ll never be nothing more than a 4th outfielder on the Mariners, barring injury of course. For 2007 we have Snelling,Ichiro, and Ibanez in the outfield(for now anyways). And for the future we’re looking at Ichiro,Jones,Snelling. So there is no place for him to play everyday.

    Besides, what do you really expect to get for Reed. As much as I like the guy, he’s shown nothing at the major league level, aside from his september callup. At the moment, he looks like another failed top prospect. He’s still got another year or so to prove otherwise, but it’s not going to happen with us.

  61. thr33niL said

    I would love to get something for Reed rather than have another GM fleece Bavasi once again in giving up little to no value arms for a piece they can use. Failed 26 year old National League pitching prospects aren’t incredibly ideal.

    Just hate to see the return on Freddy dwindle away to nothingness. I still believe that Reed can morph into Mark Kotsay any day now but just because we don’t have a starting job for him, no need to give him away for next to nothing.

  62. thr33niL said

    Grief, looking at the guys that Florida got from NY its less than interesting. Linstrom is 26 and never has been past AA and Owens is 27 and never got past AA until the Mets forced him to the big club for 4 innings to get his head kicked in.

    I’d rather keep Reed than give him away for two useless pieces. Meaning relievers that will never see Safeco. Just my opinion though.

  63. Oly Rainiers Fan said

    Speaking of, there was an article in the paper the other day saying the White Sox were shopping Freddy around, and speculating that since he’s Felix’s idol maybe the M’s would bite.

    I don’t want him back.

  64. Freddy isn’t any good anymore, or the M’s probably would be wise to go get him.

  65. Wishhiker said

    Uhm…no thanks on Freddy, but BTW this is the Langston line were talking about here. Reed is all that’s left of trading Langston, getting Randy, trading Randy, getting Freddy…I hope they can turn this into a coup in order to keep the rich tradition alive. I was pissed they traded Freddy and didn’t get a pitcher. It’s dumb in and of itself, but they broke the tradition of acquiring another stud prospect SP. If they get one back in trade for Reed, AWESOME!!!

    I am of the overall opinion that the M’s would need alot of good luck to get into the playoffs in 2007 with the players signed and available via FA or trade. I’m looking at this year as what I think is the worst FA list of the last decade. When I look at the potential FA’s for 2007 and 2008 I think that either year could be the best FA class in the last 10+ years. Between the 2 we could see 10 FA aces and 10 FA LH power bats. Now I see no reason to sign anyone to more than a 1yr or 1/+option contract. Maybe I’d give 2+ years for 3 SP if I thought I could find a way to move Washburn…

    If a trade for Jennings could be pulled off and was signed to an extension of 2+years, the M’s win bidding for Igawa and sign him for 2+years and Signing Schmidt for 2+ years. Problem is if you trade Washburn and pick up Carlos Zambrano next year (count me as willing to overpay out the ass for Zambrano) you have a lock on the starting rotation until these contracts are up. No minor leaguers can move up without injury/trade or benching of one of them.

    Also if you want to trade Sexson I’d do it this offseason because he’ll be much lower on people’s wish lists with the FA’s available next year. Sexson’s $14 million in 2007 would look much better lining the pockets of Zambrano or Carpenter and 2007’s potential FAs are a large part of the reason I advocate trading Sexson. I know Zambrano and Carpenter will most likely sign for well over $14M a year and I wouldn’t complain about seeing the M’s offer as much as $19/year for Zambrano if that’s what it took to get him. He may sign an extension in the meantime. Another player on that list may also sign an extension this offseason, Ichiro. If you haven’t seen them a good list is up at mlb4u.com. It’s also a good source for contract info.

  66. Jerry said

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Bavasi package Reed with Soriano. The Marlins need a closer too. Those two would help patch up the Marlins two biggest holes. With the amount of starting pitching that the Marlins have (Ricky Nolasco?) it would be wise for the M’s to see what they could get done by expanding the trade a bit.

    By the way, I wouldn’t write off guys like Lindstrom and Owens just because they are kinda old for prospects. Owens is a converted catcher, and is relatively new to pitching. And Lindstrom can hit triple digits on the radar gun. Both of those guys were pretty dominant this year in AA, and could be nice additions to the bullpen.

    Relievers are just more volatile, and when things click with them, they can emerge quickly and become very valuable arms. The M’s have had great luck with guys who throw hard (Lowe, Putz). I would love to see one or both of those guys come to the M’s, and have Chavez teach them how to throw a splitter.

    The one thing the M’s seem to be pretty good at is developing relief pitchers. These types of arms are great raw material for the M’s power reliever factory.

  67. One more thing, I wouldn’t trade Jeremy Reed for Matt Lindstrom, even if Henry Owens is included. If there isn’t more to the deal, I’m out, at least at this point in the offseason.

    I’ll hold the Reed card for another three or four weeks, his value can’t get any worse.

  68. Alex said

    Is there anything on the horizon for the Mariners? I’d like to see them do something, albeit I hope it isn’t a Juan Pierre/Gary Matthews Jr. something. Are they just waiting for the market for the starting pitchers to be set? Is the real action going to happen at the Winter Meetings?

  69. It sounds like Bavasi is involved in the trade market more than the free agent market right now and they aren’t likely to pop a signing anytime soon, unless Schmidt accepts a relatively reasonable offer, rather than the 5 and 70 his agent is asking for.

    I do think if they believe they will have to sign a middle-rotation type, like Ohka or someone of that nature, they should do so quickly, before Lilly and Meche sign for 4 and 35, pushing Ohka’s market too far beyond his value that it no longer makes any sense to grab him.

    I’d wait out the big-money guys, and see if I can get something via the trade route first.

    I can’t help but think that if someone gives up a good prospect or two for Sexson that the M’s wouldn’t turn around and use those spects to net another starting pitcher, rather than signing a free agent.

    The sooner the better, though… they need to find some definitive answers to the direction in which they need to go.

    The winter meetings start in two weeks or so and that’s always a time when things start to happen in droves.

  70. BTW, the two teams most interested in Gil Meche are apparently the Cubs and the Cardinals.

  71. Willmore said

    Cubs … is there a “Worst Executive of the Year” award ?

  72. If there were, we could annually award it to Jim Hendry as long as he remains a GM.

    Brian Sabean comes close though, after that Nathan, Liriano, and Bonser for AJ Pierzynski trade from a few years back.

  73. Sabean’s list is longer than Bavasi’s ever will be.

  74. Wishhiker said

    Jason, what do you think about my thoughts that committing as little money as possible from next years budget could help fill long term holes (Ace, LH power) via free agency if enough of the right names are still around next winter. Have you looked at a list of potential free agents of 07 &/or 08?

    I find it hard to beleive, with the money being thrown around right now, that more than a couple players in special situations would not test FA. Hopefully Ichiro is one of those special cases. One symptom of this mantality right now would be Drew opting out of his $11M/year average over 3, leaving a situation that by all accounts he was happy with for the hope of a couple more dollars. The fact that he’s likely to get it on a longer contract helps too. For similiar reasons I could see both Zambrano and Carpenter both testing free agency next year. I know that both the Cubs and Cards will probably do thier best to resolve the situation before thier respective Aces have a chance to run, but the pitcher has nothing to lose and conceivably a lot to gain. Do you have particuliar information that would lead you to beleive either of these Aces might re-sign this offseason?

  75. Malcolm said

    Does everyone not remember last year? When everyone said to wait out that offseason because the talent in next (read: this) year’s offseason would be sooo much better? Then Mulder sucked, Oswalt signed an extension, Pettitte went all Clemens on us, and guess what, the market sucks worse than last years.

    Never ever unless there’s a 2000 crop coming along, think that next year’s market will be better than this one.

  76. Edman said

    There is no predicting the FA market, period. You get what you need, when it’s there. If Schmidt can be had for the terms you can live with, you make the move. You can’t worry about long-term value. Yes, you are gambling they will be good throughout their contract, but that doesn’t often happen.

    You pay your money and take your chances. Losers stand at the edge of the pond and stick there toes in to see if it’s too cold…….winners simply jump in and accept the risks. In the history of the game, I can’t remember the last timid organization that won it all.

    You want a sure thing? You’ll be paying way too much tax….and you’ll die someday…..beyond that, it’s guess work…..LOL. Thanks Ben, for the hacked up quote.

  77. Edman said

    Jason, I agree, the M’s have to get starting pitching, period. They don’t have anyone close at Tacoma, as the rosters sit today. They really can’t do any worse than what we saw of Pineiro last year. They can’t get anymore inconsistant than Gil Meche, last year.

    Bottom line is, they need a couple inning eaters. Last year’s starters seldom got into the late innings. I have no problem with Meche, other than the fact he can’t seem to go seven innings, and often was lucky to get through five, even when he was pitching well. That’s got to stop. The bullpen suffered for it last year. The bench suffers for it, because you have to carry and extra arm.

    Bullpens can win divisions, provided they aren’t carrying the burden of having to pitch three plus innings, nearly every night.

    So, while Schmidt may not be what he use to be, he’s still a bulldog, and I like that. I loved Jamie, but he too, wasn’t going deep in games like he use to. Washburn did OK, most the time, but he needs help.

    If I had my way, I’d get Schmidt and Lilly, and let Baek prove he’s a fluke, rather than assuming so. I’d also be aggresive on the better borderline “make-or-break” invitees. All you need is one guy, who rediscovers himself.

    And, again, I can’t at all see trading Sexson, and especially not for prospect, unless at least one is an ABSOLUTE can’t miss. Prospects are risky, no matter how good. We ALL were beside ourselves when we got Reed. He was as good a prospect as you get in trade. You can’t trade a sure thing, for a chance, not when you have no insurance in case you’re wrong.

  78. Jerry said

    So, Edman, are you trying to say that you don’t think that M’s should trade Sexson?

    It wasn’t clear in the 5,000 posts you have submitted on the topic.

    Can you explain to us your rationale one more time?

  79. Wishhiker said

    I personally would rather see Igawa or Jason Jennings than Lilly and never said not to sign Schmidt. What I did say is that if you sign 2 FA SP’s this year and manage to sign Zambrano or Carpenter next year you’d have a full staff. There would be no room for advancement of a young starter for a few years. I’m not saying that’s a problem, because someone would end up being tradeable if SP’s were pushing up. I like the idea of getting Igawa, Jennings and Schmidt if trading Washburn becomes possible without eating his contract. I doubt the team would trade Washburn and the easiest way to trade him would probably be with Ibanez which the team seems really unwilling to do.

    My thought is that there’s a possibility that Zambrano and Carpenter become FAs next year and represent something this team’s been missing essentially since Randy was traded. I don’t think it’s a good idea to tie your hands this offseason from the possibility of signing one of them next year. I’m not saying to wait, just not to spend next years budget so much so that if either do become available you can’t go hard after the teams most specific need of the last decade.

    As well there are a few LH power hitters that are signed through 2007 and 2008. If all of them come through there will be close to 10 each of Aces and LH power hitters between the 2 years. Those are the 2 most specific needs talked about every year. Ace and LH power. If you see 2 FA classes like this on the horizon, it’s my opinion that you haveto prepare for the possibility of getting involved and filling those needs long term.

  80. Wishhiker said

    Uhmmm…A lot of people don’t think an aging hack-tastic power hitter that doesn’t draw alot of walks and has hit under .250 the last 2 years combined isn’t such a sure thing. I’d rather see a couple pitchers in the minors and replace 70% of his power with a better fielding 1Bman for millions less who may hit closer to .300 personally. Just my opinion Edman, not fact, but my opinion.

  81. Wish,

    The trade market is a much safer, more productive avenue for the current Mariners to get better, than the free agent classes over the next two years.

    The problem is, the Mariners have so little to trade that even the high-salaried players that are available because their clubs want to unload their contracts, aren’t likely to end up in Seattle. Philly isn’t going to give Pat Burrell away, for example, even though the biggest reason they want to trade him is so they can use his salary more effectively elsewhere.

    But they are asking SF for Sanchez, Martinez-Esteve and Noah Lowry for Burrell, without any cash exchanging hands. Now, sure, they are aiming high, but the M’s can’t even get to half that package without looking toward guys like Betancourt, Lopez, Soriano.

    The Mariners can’t think so big, unfortunately, because the only way they land a big name is via free agency.

    Ramirez is NOT coming here, Adam Dunn is not coming here, and Burrell is not coming here.

    Same goes for the arms. It’s either free agency, or think medium, and that’s dangerous route.

  82. Spokane Dude said

    So…there’s still plenty of off-season left, but it feels like the Mariners might choose to sit tight and make some minor to medium moves; perhaps sign one mid-level starter on a two or three-year deal, make a trade to get another mid-level starter and sign a mid-level guy with some “lefty sock”. Oh, and maybe a veteran backup catcher. The team gets a little better, but not a lot, and keeps from digging itself into some big financial holes.

    And, you know, that might be the best approach this year.

  83. Edman said

    LMAO…..I just LOVE the “making millions less” crowd. Show me ANYWHERE that the money WOULD be better spent!!! Some of you hound on about Bavasi not making the right kind of deals or trades, then think that putting more money into his hands is going to cure something.

    Forget batting average. For those uncable of understanding ALL stats….there are only TWO that matter, in regard to hitting…..RUNS SCORED…..and …..RUNS DRIVEN IN. Who gives a flying fark what Sexson’s average is? That’s not his job, that’s Ichiro’s. His job is to drive in runs, PERIOD…..not to be able to get a base hit, with two down.

    Let’s make this clear…..RUNS BATTED IN. You bring up that stat, but fail to mention the fact that, sans his injury shorten season, he consistantly drives in over 100 runs a game. I don’t care if he gets his hits…..but more about WHEN he gets them.

    Bury your head in stats, be my guest. But, IMHO, walks, strikeouts, et al make ZERO difference, in regard to his job. He’s here to drive in runs…..How do you replace the lost runs driven in?

    I know I’d feel so much better to have a .280 hitter, who’s lucky to drive in 80 runs, just because it looks good on paper.

    Some of you see hitters so one dimentionally, it’s amazing. Shove OPS where the sun don’t shine. If it’s not scoring or driving in runs, it’s worthless.

  84. Edman said

    Oops……not 100 RBI a game…..hell, we’d never lose. 100 RBI per season.

  85. Trent said

    Edman, I already commented about this in the other thread but RBI’s are a useless stat to evaluate a players worth. RBI’s are a team statistic. Sexson’s RBI totals are in direct correlation to where he hits in the lineup and who is in front of him. To help explain this a little further, if you move him to the bottom half or the leadoff or #2 spot and he’s a .260/.330/.500 hitter with about 75-80 RBI’s. Now couple that with his mediocre defense at first and he isn’t a $14 million a year player. He’s a one dimensional player.

    And as I said in the other thread, with $14 million to spend, you better believe I could find another way to create 100 runs.

  86. Jerry said

    RE #83,

    That is one of the worst arguments I have ever heard on this blog.

    Both of the stats you are focusing on are heavily influenced by forces outside the players control.

    Trent is right. Those are both team stats. Those are the last numbers that you should be considering when evaluating a player.

    How can you make a decision about whether a player is a good addition to your team if a large part of the basis of your evaluation is outside that players control?

  87. Wishhiker said

    Jason…You confused the hell out of me.

    I didn’t understand it when I first read your response so I decided to give it a day and reread it. I will paraphrase the points I believe you to be making, please explain.

    You start out saying that FA is not the route for the M’s to fill thier needs.
    Trading would be safer and more productive…
    We don’t have enough to trade…
    FA is the only way the M’s (is it have, can or will?) sign a FA
    So it’s either FA’s or middle tier FA’s?

    I’d rather see everything the team needs coming from the Minor league affiliates…that doesn’t pertain to the question though. I asked about the possible availability of 2 players presently signed through 2007. I never mentioned trading for anyone but Jennings. You brought up the point of trade to answer my question about free agancy and then disputed your own point rather than answering what I did ask.

    My questions had to do with pitching not Dunn, Ramirez or Burrell. I did talk about potential FA LH power signed through 2007 so Dunn has room for argument here, but I was not talking about acquiring a bat this year or via trade.

    Jason, what do you think the chances are that Zambrano will test FA? Carpenter? Do you think the M’s would pay $15-20 million a year for an Ace? That was mostly what I was asking about…

    I was thinking that maybe you were saying that alot of FA’s don’t want to play here for the reasons we’ve all heard, but that doesn’t seem to be your point. Maybe the M’s will never pay for a top $$$ FA but you didn’t say that either. Your posts are usually well thought out, informative and easy to read, but you lost me this time.

  88. Yes, wish, you read correctly. FA is NOT the most productive way for the M’s to get better, considering the market being ridiculous, but because they don’t have the trade pieces to do it the right way, they have no choice.

    I think the Cubs will throw Zambrano a ton of cash over the next 6 months… hew on’t even get to free agency.

    And no, I don’t think the M’s would play 15-20 a year for an ace, because Johan Santana isn’t coming here and he’s the only one worthy of such cash.

    Felix is the closest thing to an ace the M’s will have in the near future, and that might be good enough.

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