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M’s sign Jose Guillen

Posted by Jason A. Churchill on December 2, 2006

Thoughts on the 1-year, $5 million deal?  I don’t mind it, but it’s not exactly what the club needed.  Seems the M’s are going for short-term deals this winter (save for Schmidt’s inevitable 4 or 5 year deal), and that’s a great move by Bill Bavasi and company.

What does the M’s nation think?

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127 Responses to “M’s sign Jose Guillen”

  1. Nighthawk180 said

    I for one like this deal alot. It’s well worth it I think. When healthy 20HR and around 80RBI’s along with a .280 BA isnt bad at all. I hope he hits more than just to lefty’s like it said at the mariners site.

  2. Katal said

    Assuming this results in an outfield of Guillen – Ichiro – Snelling, or Ibanez – Ichiro – Snelling, I’m happy. Really, as long as Jose doesn’t block Chris, it seems like a solid move.

    Also, like you mentioned, I’m very pleased as Bavasi’s restraint this offseason.

  3. safecochatter said

    2nd coming of carl everett…
    just 1 million more and not even from the left side….

  4. I think the Mariners are now in a position to a few things and have pieces to fill out a decent lineup whatever they are able to do.

    They can add a DH still and play Guillen, Ichiro, Raul in the outfield; they can add another outfielder and use Raul at DH with Guillen, Ichiro and the yet to be signed OF…

    They can trade Richie, keep Ben and go that route, with Snelling playing a corner… or add a 1B, trade Richie AND Ben, DH Raul and use Chris, Ichiro and Jose in the outfield.

    Guillen can play either corner, and pretty well.

    I like it.

  5. safecochatter,

    Guillen has value on the bases, and in the field. Everett had neither, and was much closer to being done as a player. Guillen is younger, and plain better.

  6. J said

    Our outfield corps is all left-handed (though not with much power) and a right-handed super 4th OF makes sense for this team. I’d feel better if his left/right splits didn’t seem to be reversed, but he’s a better fit for this club offensively and defensively than Eduardo Perez was, and I thought he was a pretty good addition.

  7. Guillen will not be a 4th OF. He’ll be starting a corner.

  8. I love the short-termers, but I HATE Jose Guillen. He’s a clubhouse cancer and he’ll probably never be the same at the plate. But I agree, short-term deals are the way to go.

  9. J said

    Well, I expected him to be starting, but I’m still hoping for Snelling getting playing time… Maybe he or Ibanez ends up at DH.

  10. I was gonna say exactly what Baseballistic said, but he made the point for me.

  11. wsm said

    If Guillen is the new starting RF, I don’t like this move. If Guillen is the platoon partner for Broussard, replacing Ibanez in the outfield for 40 games, then I’m OK with it. For $5 million though I think we’re looking at Snelling as a 4th OF, and another summer of frustration waiting for the DFA that never comes.

    A right-handed platoon outfielder doesn’t cost that much.

  12. mariners said

    I think its a good signing. Guillen has a very strong arm and can play left field so Ibnaez can move to DH.

  13. 3rd Watch said

    Good deal for Bavasi on paper. It is yet to be seen what will really happen, but Guillen could be a major pick up that supplies ample power. The only thing that scares me is his clubhouse demeanor. He has caused alot of trouble in his many stops…to name a few: CIN, WSH, PIT, ANA. But he always has had value at the trade deadline….

    The real question is: Who is going to be dealt now?

  14. mariners said

    Reed is my guess.

  15. Orlandu said

    It’s a pretty good move. When he’s healthy, he’s a good player and he’s not getting a ridiculous deal like a lot of free agents are.

  16. wsm said

    LF Ibanez, CF Ichiro , RF Guillen , DH Broussard/? is worse than what we had with Snelling in RF.

    LF Snelling, CF Ichiro, RF Guillen, DH Ibanez is ok, probably marginally better than what we had. Problem is its sets up Hargrove with a great platoon opportunity in LF. He’ll run Snelling and Bloomquist out there, batting both #2.

    LF Ibanez/Guillen, CF Ichiro, RF Snelling, DH Broussard/Ibanez would be best. Except for Guillen’s splits and contract don’t support that.

  17. drdetecto said

    You think the M’s website has it wrong, Jason?

    Should he join the Mariners, Guillen would likely serve as the team’s designated hitter against left-handed pitching. Eduardo Perez held that role during the second half of last season, but wasn’t offered arbitration on Friday.

    Depending on the strength of his elbow, Guillen could also spend time in right field.

    Guillen had a 666 OPS at home in Washington in 2005 and faces a poor home field context. I certainly hope that they aren’t going to bench a healthy Snelling for Jose.

    Would not surprise me in the least if Hargrove pushed for that, however.

  18. Orlandu said

    I’m guessing Broussard will be traded and Ibanez or Snelling will get most of the time at DH.

  19. Willmore said

    Hate the player, don’t care about the signing. It’s safe, he’ll stink at Safeco and will be either released or traded at the deadline. This is the latte-fan signing. Most latte-fans will be happy to have him, because he, as the papers will likely mention, hit 82 homers between 2003 and 2005. 27 of those for Anaheim, so the NL-AL curse is surely not a factor. Edman will likely love the signing because Guillen had 104 RBIs for the Angels in 2004, and isn’t that all that matters in baseball, RBIs ? To be fair, he had a very good year in 2004, but that was his only good year, with the exception of his stay at the Great American Ballpark (oh, he love it there).

    In essence, as long as Hargrove isn’t bone-headed enough to give Guillen anything more than a platoon role at DH, I’m fine. But if Snelling loses even 1 AB because of Guillen, I’m pissed.

    PS: Guillen would be a crappy platoon guy too, because he doesn’t have the splits to support it, he’s equally bad against lefties and righties and in 2005, he was actually much better against the righties, go figure.

  20. Lamda said

    It just hasn’t been reported on that site yet – ESPN is saying it’s a done deal – agreed to just awaiting a physical on Monday.
    I have pushed Guillen for a while so i’m a pretty happy M’s fan right now – time will tell if I was right or a moron, lol. I would have preferred we got him for a mill or two less but that’s fine at 5mill for one year. We pay Ibanez 5 mill and Guillen, when healthy, can put up identical power numbers as in 20/80.
    Also – 5 mill is not a platoon guy or only against lefties – that’s a starting player as Jason said – unless you are on the yankees. You can be sure we aren’t paying him this money to get 250 ab’s – he’ll be the starting guy. If his arm is ok and he can air out the ball like he did – will be a great OF that people won’t run on. Good first move by the M’s IMO.

  21. Fred said

    Guillen is a strong player, if healthy. The Nationals no doubt would have resigned him if they thought he would be productive in 2007. They need a player fitting his profile in their outfield.
    The money seems extremely high for someone with so long an injury history. His arm once was powerful but it is doubtful he’ll be able to play in the field for most of the 2007 season. Is he worth it for 200 at-bats as a DH?

  22. Lamda said

    some can rip this deal all they want and push Snelling – but the simple fact is to count on Snelling for an entire year is foolhardy at best. Snelling HAS to be a platoon guy for an ENTIRE year before he can be considered for a full time gig. I don’t see how this takes away from him though so people shouldn’t fret. We have no DH if Ibanez plays left so don’t worry. I imagine though that Raul/Snelling split between DH/LF.

  23. Goose said

    Huh? Why does Snelling have to be a platoon guy for an entire year before being considered for a full time gig?

  24. Broussard is gone if Guillen is going to spend any significant time at DH – unless Sexson is traded.

    The Mariners aren’t going to pay 9-10 mil for a Ben-Jose DH platoon.

  25. Slackman said

    I think Snelling has to be a platoon guy for an entire year to ensure that he can stay healthy for an entire year. The guy can hit, but can he stay healthy? We’ll just have to wait and see.

  26. Adam said

    This is a GREAT signing. Clubhouse Cancer?? Bah. You all probably said the same thing about Everett, and he was fine. He just sucked. Guillen does not suck.

    I hope this means: Snelling in left, Ichiro in center, Guillen in right, Raul at DH, and we can now trade Sexson and/or Broussard, along with Reed.

    GREAT value deal.

  27. Guillen has a lot of incentive to not be a cancer — like 12 million dollars.

  28. Brett said

    Jason, do you think this means Broussard and/or Sexson is out? I’ve always heard Bavasi really liked Snelling, so I doubt he’d make a move to cut into his playing time, but it does kind of worry me… What kind of playing time do you think Snelling will get in ’07?

  29. I think it means one of them, or both, is gone.

    I think Snelling will play almost full time, depending on whether the M’s can add another bat or not.

  30. Scott said

    Jason,

    So, how much does this impact Sexson? You say he could be gone, how likely would you say that is?

  31. I think 20-30% for Sexson.

  32. Guillen is WORSE than Everett in the clubhouse. He’s aggravated every team he’s been with making enemies in Anaheim and then in Washington, not to mention some of his earlier fights. can’t you imagine the shouting matches with Mike Scioscia every time the M’s play the Halos?

    Also, I think Snelling would’ve been a better option in the lineup — unless of course the M’s are going to deal Sexson.

  33. Guillen was pretty bad in Anaheim, yeah. But he rarely disrupted the Nats house, and when he did, it was pretty minor.

  34. mariners said

    I personally think Brossard is gone, sexson is worth to much to the team.

  35. j2d2 said

    Why are we concerned with our clubhouse getting disrupted? Is there some winning atmosphere in there we’re worried about preserving? Till Hargrove aint the skip, the house could use some shaking up anyway. 🙂

  36. Sexson is a hindrance, considering his 14 mil salary.

  37. Mr. Egaas said

    You have to like the Mariners offense a lot better with Guillen on the roster, and it’s a relative bargain in this market.

    Basically, from last year’s opening day lineup, we’re swapping Carl Everett for Jose Guillen and Joe Borchard/Jeremy Reed for Ben Broussard/Chris Snelling. What’s not to like about that.

    Let’s face it, Snelling can’t play everyday. He’ll still get his hacks in. It’s also looking more and more like Bloomquist is getting less and less.

  38. Mr. Egaas said

    I’d rather deal Sexson than Broussard, pending they spend the money right.

    Broussard is a lefty line drive hitter which benefits the home field better and plays better defense. Oh, and he makes next to nothing compared to Sexson.

  39. drdetecto said

    Guillen has a lot of incentive to not be a cancer — like 12 million dollars.

    Absolutely. The M’s wrote up $3m+ of his jack, and all of 2008’s, on a contingency. That is language that players like Guillen can understand.

    And like we sez, Guillen can be a cancer, but Grover is chemo for that kind of player. I’m sure he’ll be fine under Hargrove.

    Guillen can rake, no doubts there. The M’s landed a legit #5-6 hitter for pennies on the dollar and they wrote his contract up to keep him in line. Gotta give it up for ’em on that.

  40. Let me explain some of my impatience with others’ auto-contention that every non-superstar addition for pennies is a bad move. Those same people think Bill Bavasi is a moron and think there is no way the current roster can win 90 games in 2007.

    To say there is no way, is irresponsible. If you take the total talent/expected performance from each respective unit of the Seattle Mariners, and compare it to that of other clubs, the Mariners are very competitive. Compare the 06 M’s to the 05 Tigers, and the difference isn’t that large.

    Some of Detroit’s younger players stepped up – Granderson, Bonderman, Verlander and Zumaya – and the vets paid off more in 06, collectively, than they had prior (Magglio, Jones) — and Polanco and Rogers were key gets, but certainly nothing that excited the Tigers’ fans into thinking they were playoff bound, let alone World Series contenders. The Tigers also got key play from fringe-esque players like Inge and Robertson.

    The Mariners have their own group of kids that would need to take a major step forward in order for any veteran pickup the Mariners have, or may yet complete, to pay off.
    Most teams, including three of the past four World Series teams (STL, HOU, CWS, DET) went into their seasons with major questions to be answered. MAJOR.
    The ONLY difference between CWS, STL, HOU and Seattle is that the Mariners are not coming off a successful season in which they made a little noise in the postseason. But talent wise, they aren’t very far off.

    The Mariners are doing tghings right thus far in the 06 offseason, and even if they add Schmidt at 4/52, it’s a somewhat successful offseason and the 2007 club will be capable of 90 victories, maybe more.
    How?

    What if Lopez cuts his 3-month power slump in half, or better, and goes 280/320/460 with slightly improved defense (via the experience he gained in 06), and Betancourt takes the final step toward being a capable bat at shortstop, which he already is, really.

    What if Felix Hernandez simply pitches like he’s fully capable? The M’s don’t even need him to repeat his 12-start audition from 2005 — just somewhere in between that and 2006’s slight disappointment.
    Ichiro in center = upgrade
    Snelling in the box for 300-400 more ABs = upgrade
    Guillen = defensive upgrade, can only be an asset offensively if used correctly.
    Thomson = cheaper, far less enigmatic than Meche, Pineiro
    Baek seems an improvement over Pineiro in the rotation, even.
    Can Washburn be worse? Probably not, so we’re likely going to see Wash be at least a little bit better.
    The bullpen is fine, and with Putz closing all year, the early months won’t be sacrificed to a veteran who can’t do the job, i.e., last year.
    There just isn’t much chance for the Mariners NOT to improve on their 2006 season, assuming Schmidt comes in.

  41. Salty Dog said

    Amen.

    Things continue to get better, and though we’re not quite there yet, I’m excited to see this team in 2007.

  42. OMD said

    I have been on the fence about Guillen for awhile. He has a load of talent, but appears to struggle with demons. If he is healthy and happy, he can post some seriously good numbers. I also like the fact that it is a short-term, incentive laden deal. At least he is not blocking the kids in AAA for too long.

    It will be interesting to see what they do with Sexson/Broussard. Would then be willing to ship one or both out and give LaHair a legitimate shot?

  43. Natereign said

    If Sexson is traded and we don’t take on much salary in return will we spend the money (not counting Schmidt).

  44. Hit and Run said

    Couldn’t we have picked up Jose Cruz Jr. to be a platoon player for less money? I have my doubts that Snelling will get his at bats. I also doubt Guillen will have the outfield arm he needs after TJ surgery, but Hargrove will play him there any way, at the expense of Snelling. Guillen will also probably have the drop off at Safeco that we see from all the right handed batters we acquire.

    I could be wrong, in fact I hope I am. We’ll see.

  45. Salty Dog said

    Two things that make me think Guillen is a good fit in Seattle:

    1) Hargrove is a good manager for him. Guillen needs a manager who will stand behind him and support him. Grover, for all his faults, will definitely do this. He’ll run him out there 130 games, if healthy, and will let Jose be Jose.

    2) There’s already a core of young Latin talent on the team. I feel like Guillen will fit in well with guys like Lopez, Betancourt, Beltre, Felix, Soriano, etc. Every game last year it seemed like those guys were in at least one camera shot joking around and having a good time. I’m thinking those guys will help to keep Guillen happy, which should translate into production.

  46. Salty Dog said

    I’m not sure why Guillen would be viewed as a platoon player. Too lazy to dig up his stats (which I was looking at earlier), but I’m pretty sure he’s almost identical vs LHP and RHP over his career.

    In fact, that’s a very good thing with Grover managing, because he doesn’t really grasp the intricacies of platoon management. If you get him a guy who can mash LHP but not RHP, he’s likely to just run him out there every day and live with the occasional suckiness. Better to have a guy who can hit both.

  47. beadyeyes said

    I have to agree with everyone who is concerned about Chris Snelling’s playing time being cut down due to this deal. I admire the fact Bavasi is looking at doing 1 year deals for vets, but c’mon, this guy is going to be AWFUL in Safeco.

    Saddest part yet, Hargrove can’t be trusted to platoon the right players, so Snelling will become the second coming of Roberto Petagine which really sucks.

    To anybody who likes this deal I ask you, why would you believe he’ll hit better than he hit last year playing in cavernous RFK?

  48. Salty Dog said

    #47:

    1) Yes, PT for Snelling is a concern here, but we all knew a LF/DH was going to be added this offseason. If Grover’s going to be playing someone over Snelling, I’d rather it be Guillen than (say) Morse. Either way, I really think Snelling made an impression on Grover last year, hopefully enough to pierce his idiotic preference for veterans 🙂 and ensure he gets ABs regardless of who else is around.

    2) Safeco’s going to hurt him, sure, but it also hurt Johjima this year, and he was a very good addition to the team. Half his games will be outside of Safeco, and the RH bats on the other teams will be equally impacted.

    3) Last year is misleading IMHO. Guillen wasn’t healthy the second half of 2005 and most of 2006. When healthy in the first half of 2005, he put up a .900+ OPS, even playing home games in RFK.

  49. drdetecto said

    c’mon, this guy is going to be AWFUL in Safeco.

    Wouldn’t oversell this point amigo, though we mentioned it at detectovision.

    Guillen has a high groundball ratio, and combined with his HR’s, that means he hits the ball hard with topspin — like Richie Sexson. That keeps the ball from hanging in the air, which is the reason Safeco kills RH’s, the extra hang time.

    Safeco isn’t his ideal park, but he is not going to be Mike Cameron out there, lofting high backspins into the alleys. :- )

  50. Jerry said

    Hmmm,

    Another interesting, cheap, short-term deal by Bavasi.

    He is doing pretty well this offseason.

    Like Thompson, I see this mainly as a stop-gap move. If Guillen goes off, the M’s can always bring him back. But I think that it is just as likely that he isn’t back next year.

    Guillen could be a great trade chip mid-season. If the M’s fall out of contention next year, Guillen is the type of guy that often gets moved to playoff teams. If Adam Jones is raking in Tacoma next year, Guillen could become much more movable.

    I like this deal. The M’s basically got 85% of what Carlos Lee gives you, but for a fraction of the cost. If he doesn’t work out, no biggie.

    I am not exactly doing backflips over this move. But it is hard to complain about this, especially in this market.

  51. Mabalasek said

    Not to be offensive or anything, but when I read Jerry’s quote I was just thinking the season hasn’t even began yet and we’re already thinking of trading Guillen for prospects mid-season. LOL.

    Anyway, I too like the signing. If the M’s could just deal Sexson for a Bonderman or a Peavy, then they are cooking. I do like the idea of giving La Hair a shot. He has performed in all of the stops that he has been, including stints for the US team. Maybe the M’s could give him a shot mid-season.

  52. Adam said

    Moving forward, here’s what I’d like to see:

    Move Snelling to LF, Ibanez to DH, Guillen to RF.

    Sign Julio Zuleta (playing in Japan) as a RH platoon w/Ibanez at DH or w/Broussard at 1B.

    Deal Sexson to the Orioles for a couple of decent B prospects (preferably arms).

    Deal Reed to Florida for whatever we can get.

    Sign Padilla (better value than Schmidt).

  53. JI said

    It’s quite possible that Guillen could be better than Lee next year, factoring in defense and park adjustments, of course.

  54. JI said

    I also agree with the Tigers comp, except that Ibanez is likely to be much less effective this year.

    We need a backup C too.

  55. Goose said

    I bet yeah he’s at least better than Gary “5/50” Matthews.

  56. matt said

    I do not think Padilla is a better value pick… He is throwing out numbers like 4 years 40 million, and apparently rumors are that a team like the Bluejays would pay that. I think that schmidt wants to come to Seattle badly enough that he would accept a three year 39 millon dollar contract or something close to that hopefully…

  57. Lamda said

    Padilla???? I took a look at this guy – I really don’t see how you can say he’s better than Schmidt or even a better value. You’ll pay maybe 3-4 mill for a guy that if on – is an Ace as opposed to a guy that if on – is slightly better than a .500 pitcher.
    I am assuming we gotta put in the 4th year on Schmidt if we wanna get him for less otherwise forget any hometown discount.
    On Guillen – I think if he works out – I think we’d be smart to re-do the contact on him in say Sept – approach him and say we don’t wanna pickup your option at 9 mill but would love to sign you to a 2 year deal at 14mill with another 3-4 mill in incentives per year.

  58. Re: Dr D

    Yes, I do think they have it wrong. The Mariners aren’t stupid enough to pay 5 million for the RH half of a platoon.

    Guillen may DH some, but he’s going to play the outfield more often than not. The club’s top major league scouts were all polled about his defensive value… they didn’t go thru all that particular trouble over the past 24 hours so they could sign a DH platoon.

    The exact PT at DH and the OF will depend on how healthy his arm is, and who else is added and subtracted from the roster.

  59. warner28 said

    No way Guillen should be a platoon guy anyway.

    He is a legit 5-6 bat in a line up and needs to be an everyday player.

  60. Matthew C said

    Jose Guillen on Ms –> less ABs for Bloomquist –> Good times.

  61. 3rd Watch said

    Warming up to Guillen. Sounds like he is really thankful to be playing for $5 mil. He gets a shot to play everyday and it gives the M’s lots of flexablity as they inter the meetings. Guillen has a small window of opportunity left in his tank and knows that a big season could mean a big payday down the line.

    Call me giddy but I feel that Bavasi it making the right moves. Lets see if he can land a top of the rotation arm or even a solid 3/4 starter that is young.

  62. Lamda said

    If we could sign Schmidt and then somehow pull off a prospect deal for Jennings or someone similar to round out or rotation – would be great. I know the chances of that are slim but if they could send Soriano plus a prospect or Jones and a prospect to Colorado for him – and sign him to an extension – we’d have a pretty stellar rotation of felix, wash, schmidt, jennings, thomson.

  63. Goose said

    I’m not sure I’d be willing to give up Jones for Jennings. I’m not even sure I’d be willing to give up Soriano.

    Jennings isn’t that good. He’s solid, but he’s nothing special.

  64. Jennings is a good idea, but not for Adam Jones.

    Jones may be on his way to a half-dozen all-star appearances and while he also may never do jack, you can’t give up the cheap production he has a good chance to give you for one year of Jennings.

    You don’t know you can re-sign him… and the Rockies are NOT going to let Seattle negotiate a contract extension prior to any deal. O’Dowd left that idea out the window years ago.

    There are other issues with jennings that should make many doubt his value, such as league change, how will he pitch when he knows he can rely on the ballpark (not every pitcher reacts well to that, ask Ryan Franklin, Gil Meche, Joel Pineiro, Jarrod Washburn), and whether he’s even interested in playing in Seattle beyond 07.

    Jennings is a No. 3 at best, and while I really like him, he’s NOT worth Adam Jones, and he’s not worth 4 and 40.

  65. Lamda said

    ahh.. didn’t know that – if there is no way to extend him before the deadline then i’d pass. i’m not real big on trading away big pieces for rental players unless its a pennant race and the guy is a major player to get you to the WS.
    Well as I said – maybe we can pull off a deal to get someone else to help us although i’m not averse to using Baek as the 5th guy as he did well for us at the end of the season.

  66. Jerry said

    Until Ichiro signs an extension, I would keep Jones.

    Nobody seems to want to recognize this, but there is a good chance that Ichiro walks after this year.

    With Jones having a year to continue his progress in AAA next year, the M’s have a great plan B if Ichiro decides to test free agency. If they deal Jones, and Ichiro bails, then we might see Bloomquist in CF next year. Or, the M’s might end up paying out the ass for Vernon Wells next offseason.

    Jones is our best prospect, and is very much underrated by national prospect pundits. I wouldn’t deal him unless Ichiro signs an extension. And even then, having Jones in LF or RF in 2008 would be pretty sweet. He should have enough bat to work out there, and he would dramatically improve the OF defense.

  67. Baseballistic said

    It’s rumored that the Cubs have offered Jacque Jones to the Rockies for Jason Jennings. The Rox could then ship Jacque Jones somewhere else because they do not need another outfielder. Perhaps a 3-way deal is coming…?

  68. larryl said

    Maybe we could deal Ichiro and Ibanez, put Jones in center and let Morse DH. Then we can field an all right-handed hitting lineup in a park that is death to right-handed hitters. Is anyone else concerned that we don’t seem to have a plan for putting together a lineup?
    And why does 5.5 mil seem cheap for a guy who couldn’t break .220 last season, is coming off an injury and has a career history of being a pain in the ass?
    How can Bavasi being having a good offseason when this his only deal so far? Oh yeah, we also locked up Bloomquist. Gotta have a right-handed hitting backup to fill in for our right-handed hitters.

  69. Edman said

    As much as many here continue their lovefeast with Chris Snelling…..it’s not up to Jose Guillen or Bill Bavasi to make it easier for him. It’s up to Chris Snelling to “EARN’ the right to playing time. Baseball has a deep history of stud prospects who never approach all the acclaim they’ve been given.

    Bavasi shouldn’t now. or ever, hand RF to Snelling. Chris needs to show up this spring and prove he owns the job. Until he does, he’s a pretender. He outplays everyone else, he’ll play everyday, unless his injury bug returns.

    I’ve always been a Snelling fan, from the first time I saw him in Everett. He, at 17, was leaps ahead of anyone else on the team, and perhaps the best natural outfielder in the league. That said, he’s got a long way to go, still.

  70. Isaiah Hunter said

    This is a great move depending on Hargrove (yikes). At any rate reasons why this deal are great

    1. You get a good solid player on the cheap. It is a health risk, but otherwise you get a RH Ibanez w/ better D for 5 Million, I see this as low to medium risk, with medium reward.

    2. This move allows a deal of Sexson. If we could move sexson for a young SP, drop washburn this would be a great deal. I know this is far out, and probably wont happen but, how bout Wash, Sexson, Reed for Hughes from the Yanks? Heck even take on a little of Wash’s contract. Wash is a better option then Lilly at 6 Million, they desire Sexson, and there was rumor the Yanks wanted Reed last summer. He would be the heir apparent to Center, while providing late inning D. Hughes would be plugged right into Wash’s spot, giving us cheaper, better production.

    3. This move allows rest for a player like Snelling, giving him so off days, and allows us to sit Ibanez when facing a lefty SP. Lets say the M’s face a lefty one out of every five games. So thats one game that Snelling is in. Lets figure we DH Snelling another game. Thats two games out of Five. Lets assume we play him when our pitcher hows flyball tend in the OF. That means he is out there at least once, prob twice a week. Thats 3/5-4/5 games. Thats 113 games he would start. Thats not bad.

    4. This move allows us the ability to sign Shicmdt while filling the OF spot. I’m not sure if this is good or what, but if we can get him wiht a discount prob not a bad thing.

    Negatives.

    1. Jose get hurts, we wasted five Mill. Yeah it hurts, but isn’t going to cripple the franchise

    2. Hargrove doesn’t use Snelling.

    3. The FO deals Benny, instead of Sexson

    4. Clubhouse cancer ( I think this is overplayed but just throwing it out there).

    Comparing the two, I think this is a solid, small move on its own. If we can move Sexson, as a result, it is a great move.

  71. JohnnyBeisbol said

    This was a great move… Guillen can rake when healthy… and he brings some intensity to this team… He was never a problem in Washington… and he carried that team in 05 when they got off to a hot start and led the division heading into the break…

    Plus he hates the Angels and Mike Scioscia which is cool with me…

    Also a great point Jason, about how this balances the roster out and allows Bavasi alot of flexibility in what he can do..

  72. Wishhiker said

    I like the move…I’ve thought Guillen would be a decent-good fit several times in the past. There’s the possible personality issues, but dealing with players like this is one thing Hargrove seems to be good at. I really like that they’re not locking players in for longer-term deals. Flexibility is a good thing in my opinion.

    Jason: I’ve been trying to find defensive statistics for Terry Serrano. I’m intrigued at the idea that he may have the tools to work into a utility player with speed, but can’t find much on him. I see that he’s played OF (incl. CF)SS and 2B, but can’t find metrics for how well he’s played in those spots. Is this feasable in your eyes?

  73. Adam B. said

    Personally I think it’s a good signing.
    I don’t think Guillen was something the Mariners desperately NEEDED,I would have preferred they get somebody with better OBP skills, but if he can stay healthy/play defense and not block Doyle, then it’s a good move.

    Think about it this way, we got 60-70% of Alfonso Soriano’s production for less then a third of the cost!

    As for how the line-up shakes out I’d like to see this:

    CF Suzuki
    LF Snelling
    3B Beltre
    DH Ibanez
    1B Sexson
    RF Guillen
    CR Johjima
    2B Lopez
    SS Betancourt

    This line-up features a few-too-many righties for Safeco and groups the lefties too close together at the top of the line-up, but given the constraints it looks pretty decent and should be competitive if the pitching is any good.

    I envision Broussard probably being delt (I just don’t see the M’s realistically dealing Sexson) for a B ‘spect or some back-up/bench help.

    As for the rotation, It’s my belief that the only reason Bavasi has made such intelligent and budget-minded decisions thus far, is because he had to save mula to throw Schmidt’s way.

    I really do expect the Mariner’s to sign him to a 4yr/13M+ contract, probably something along the lines of 4/56M (Yech, but what else is an unimaginative team supposed to do?)

    With that kind of roster and hopefully a few good breaks, I don’t see any reason why the Mariner’s couldn’t be competitive, or at least finish around 90 W’s.

  74. larryl said

    Great lineup! Put Reed in for Snelling and the M’s are pretty much where they started last season.

  75. JohnnyBeisbol said

    I think…

    CF Ichiro
    DH Snelling
    3B Beltre
    LF Ibanez
    C Johjima
    RF Guillen
    1B Broussard
    2B Lopez
    SS Betancourt

    Get rid of that 14 million owed to Richie… plus he kills too many rallies with the strikeouts… Let Broussard pepper the right field seats for half the price…

    Johjima is as clutch of a hitter as we have… i like him batting in the 5th or 6th spot..

  76. Ralph said

    What, Raul Mondesi wasn’t available?

  77. Wishhiker said

    This is a tough roster to make ‘the’ lineup for…

    My biggest problem is who bats second.

    The first thing I looked at, because I would like to see Lopez hitting like he was in the first part of 2006, was where Lopez was hitting in the order. He is not the best fit on the club for #2, but that was said last year too. He hit well enough in the #2 spot to make the All-Star team. I’m not sure if his approach was different while hitting second, but I know Snellings has been the same everywhere he’s hit. I like the idea of Snelling bringing patience and the ability to pull it to the open right side of the infield (when Ichiro’s being held on by oposing 1bmen) but Snelling’s shown that he will hit essentially the same anywhere in the lineup.

    There’s too much to be played out in ST for me to say who should go where especially if both Sexson and Beltre will still be here. But the thought that Ichiro, Lopez and Snelling should all be at the top of the order spawned this idea…

    Ichiro
    Lopez
    Snelling
    Beltre
    Ibanez
    Sexson
    Kenji
    Guillen
    Betancourt

    If Sexson’s gone and Broussard is the everyday 1B (I don’t like him everyday) move Guillen and Kenji both up one and hit Broussard #8. I don’t know if it would be better to have Guillen hit behind Sexson or Kenji do so, but I may never find out.

    If Sexson gets traded I would prepare for the possibility of Lahair earning the job out of ST and making Broussard available. Who needs 2 lefty 1bMen?

  78. The M’s offense is going to have a new player, still.

  79. Nighthawk180 said

    Is something in the works jason? Like possibly a trade scenerio?

  80. Seatown4Life said

    I love BigSexy but his trade value is as decent as it will get. I think we should pull the trigger if we can get some decent pitching for him.

  81. not today.

  82. Alex said

    Tomorrow?

  83. Since tomorrow isn’t here, that’s an unanswerable question.

    Ask me tomorrow after 5.

  84. DIQ said

    JAC,

    Who do you see the M’s sending to accquire Eveland? Is that a logical destination for Reed?

  85. Scott said

    Jason,

    Well, way to make my next 22 hours miserable while I wait for this. If the move goes down, are you happy with it? Please don’t say Luis Gonzalez.(sp?)

  86. Trent said

    I don’t believe Jason was being specific and was actually being a little sarcastic. 😉

  87. Scott said

    Oh, my bad, it’s hard to pick up on sarcasm without talking to someone in person.

  88. Trent said

    The internet is where the art of sarcasm comes to die, lol. And I really don’t believe that Gonzo is in the plans for the M’s anymore.

  89. I dont see Eveland being a specific part of any trade involving Seattle.

  90. I dont think Luis Gonzalez makes much sense anymore.

    I think a 1B/DH makes more sense, and LuGo wants to play the field still.

  91. Scott said

    So should we assume the player the M’s are adding is a 1B/DH? Not that it is good to assume.

  92. Scott said

    Again, do you like the move, if it goes down?

  93. Baseballistic said

    Jason,

    What 1B/DH do you have in mind? There aren’t many available on the FA market — is a trade in the works?

    Also, quick sidenote…

    Since you know much more about the posting system for Japanese players than I do, I was wondering what you thought about this recent rumor…

    A New Jersey newspaper reported that “if the Red Sox are unable to reach an agreement with Matsuzaka, Scott Boras will purchase the rights to him for $25M in a deal that Seibu and MLB Commissioner Bud Selig will support. He will then auction off the starter to the team that submits the best contract”.

    It seems ridiculous to me, but then again, I don’t know much about the posting system.

    Thanks.

  94. I dont know of a deal thats close.
    re: Matsuzaka
    I think there would be major issues with that by MLB – both against Boras/DM and the Sox for possibly not negotiating in faith.
    I don’t buy that Selig would support that.

    Wait, I misread… you said if the Sox cannot reach an agreement by Dec. 15…

    Yeah that’s very feasible and totally up to player, agent and Seibu. Selig wouldnt have a choice, though.

  95. EA said

    Guillen has a lot of incentive to not be a cancer — like 12 million dollars.

    That’s the thing about hotheads. They tend to not act rationally.

  96. Everyone has their price.

  97. Goose said

    Another 1B/DH? I’m assuming this is to platoon with Brouusard?

  98. Baseballistic said

    I wonder if Shea Hillenbrand would be a good fit for Seattle. Yes, I know he’s another terrible guy to have in your clubhouse, but he I doubt he’d have a similar problem with Hargrove to his conflict with John Gibbons and the front office.

    Hillenbrand would make a terrific platoon with Broussard…

    Broussard vs. RHP: .308/.343/.505 (.177/.261/.355 vs. LHP)
    Hillenbrand vs. LHP: .338/.373/.489 (.256/.291/.437 vs. RHP)

    Hillenbrand also can’t be too expensive now that the Giants didn’t offer him arby, can he?

  99. Adam said

    Here’s a name that would be a great fit as a platoon DH/1B:

    Julio Zuleta.

    Think about it…

  100. Zuleta is a bench guy only.

  101. JH said

    Whishhiker: any particular reason you’re looking for defensive stats for a middle infielder who’s spent 3 seasons in the VSL?

  102. Wishhiker said

    Curiosity…His name came up when I was looking for Mariners who are playing well this winter. I didn’t ask again because it’s not important, but I’ve tried to find defensive statistics for other Venezuelan players to no avail and thought that Jason might have an idea where to look.

  103. Nasir said

    I like the move.

  104. Drew V. said

    There are also continued rumors swirling that the Boston Red Sox will try to pry hot hitting prospect Adam Jones away from Seattle in some type of package for Manny Ramirez. Such a move would seem a daring feat for a Mariners management crew that already has its hands full trying to land the pitching it needs.

    Link to the Times..
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2003460598_mari04.html

    Really? This could be a really interesting December..

  105. DIQ said

    Rumors are heating up and possibilities are endless.

    I still don’t think we get Manny or Dice-K.

  106. Goose said

    I don’t think it’s possible that we can even get Dice-K, at least not this year. I don’t believe any of those rumors for a second about his rights being sold to Boras, or Selig selling them off the next highest bidder.

  107. JH said

    Wishhaker:

    Fair enough.

    Serrano’s pretty much a non-spect, and short of hitting .400/.500/.600, there’s nothing his Parallel League stats will do to change that. He’s never hit before, he wasn’t a high dollar signing, and there’s no reason to believe he’ll hit at higher levels. If he makes it stateside next year (which I highly doubt), it’ll be because one of the short-season teams needs an extra middle infielder, not because he’s worth watching.

    If you’re really into fishing the deep minors for the next wave of Venezuelan talent, the names to follow are Juan Carlos Ramirez, Mario Martinez, and Edilio Colina. IF you’re fishing deep for Dominican talent, the names to follow are Alfredo Mateo, Gregorio Rosario, and Carlos Triunfel.

    The team loves Martinez, and one NL Latin American coordinater I’ve spoken to likes him much more than Triunfel, the Ms’ other high-dollar signing this year. There’s a very good chance he’s going to be the next big thing in the Ms’ system.

  108. Jerry said

    JH,

    Great info on Martinez. That is nice to hear. With him and Triunfel, the M’s have added two nice big-name international signings.

    I would love to hear your take on the other guys you mentioned: Juan Carlos Ramirez, Edilio Colina, Alfredo Mateo, and Gregorio Rosario. Any chance you can give us a real quick scouting report on these guys?

    I imagine that we will see Triunfel and Martinez in the US next year. Are any of these others likely to come stateside?

    Are any of these guys near the same level as Triunfel and Martinez?

  109. J said

    I know the offseason’s getting a little long when we’re talking summer league guys.

    I’m looking forward to seeing what Rosario does, because I’ve been hearing about him for years now. Ramirez also had an impressive debut and Colina, from what I remember, was one of the best hitters on that team until his performance took a nosedive in July, which I’ve seen happen a few times from summer league types in their first years.

  110. DIQ said

    Dontrelle Willis for Sexson and Cash.

    Manny Ramirez for Putz and prospects/ Adam Jones and pitching.

    Interesting rumors.

  111. Goose said

    Somehow I doubt Florida would take even a fourth of a Sexson’s contract.

  112. Goose said

    Also I see the Mets have signed Naggs to a minor league contract with a NRI to spring training.

  113. And the 40-man spot opened up for Guillen? Pineiro? Nope. Guess again. Rene Rivera? Eehhhhhhhh. Wrong.

    Bobby Livingston, I presume? See the bottom of the Guillen article on the M’s site for the link.

    Why the heck are they keeping Pineiro? They didn’t offer him arbitration, so why the heck is he still on the 40-man?

  114. Willmore said

    Just a wild thought, but why don’t we try to trade some prospects, and maybe Soriano for Pavano and 8 mil to cover some of the contract. He might work out, he might not, in the end, he’s signed for just 2 years + option for a third and we don’t lose much. The Yankees have Hughes and Igawa and they might be interested in Zito, so they might want to unload some money and a rotation spot.

    Thoughts ?

  115. Goose said

    I wouldn’t give Soriano or anything else of value for Pavano.

  116. Willmore said

    caption: “Eh, what the hell am I supposed to do with this guy ?”

  117. Robby said

    I want Adam Jones in the Outfield. We are still a year or two away from really competing, so might as well give him some PT.

  118. Goose said

    I prefer LL’s caption myself

  119. Craig said

    4:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons
    • The Dodgers and Mariners are in the hunt for Manny Ramirez.

  120. Edman said

    Robby, here’s a better idea…..lets keep Jones in Tacoma for another year, and let him mature properly…..rather than rush him to the majors.

  121. Willmore said

    The Dodgers are out of it. The Red Sox are asking for the farm system, and the Dodgers aren’t biting.

    The Mariners have no farm system, so I guess we should be fine, as long as Felix isn’t part of the deal.

  122. So…what happens in the Spring when Adam Jones comes in and tears the cover off the ball…with a 375 average.Tell him it’s down to Tacoma for you for more seasoning. I think Jones will be the suprise of the Spring. Don’t even think about trading him.

  123. If Adam Jones can get you Manny Rameriz, you do it. Potential good player for a Hall of Famer, unless you’d rather another losing season?

  124. LAD is NOT out of it… it’s early, this is posturing at its best.

    LAD just isn’t going to trade Broxton, Kemp and Loney for Manny. That’s insane, and the Sox pretty much knew they wouldn’t.

    Two of the three, maybe, though I would NOT deal Loney AND Kemp for Manny, if i was LA.

  125. LAD will counter, and are expected to according to their own guys.

  126. Sean Hope said

    JAC,
    78 and 83, you said there would be a new player added to the offense. And to ask you around 5 o’clock today. Can you tell us anything yet???

  127. JH said

    Jerry:

    Don’t know anything about JC Ramirez’s stuff – just heard that the Latin American development staff loves him. Good chance he’s in the states next year.

    Rosario will be 18 years old next year, and while his stats took a step backwards in the DSL this past season, his stuff improved. He pitches in the 90-93 range with his FB and has an inconsistent curve that could develop into a plus pitch.

    Mateo’s a guy with bigtime lefthanded pull power, a solid glove at 3B, and a horrible approach at the plate. His raw power’s his best tool by far. He wasn’t a high dollar signing ($45,000), but he’s bulked up significantly since they signed him. Best in-system comp off the top of my head: Manelik Pimentel. Mateo’s 3 years younger though, so he could become a legit prospect. I’m not betting on it, but he’s probably the best position prospect the DSL team had this year (it was a very weak crop).

    Triunfel’s impressive in BP but he struggles a bit against live pitching (not rare for a 16y/o Dominican). He’s a below average runner and his range and arm both might make him better suited to play 2B long-term. I’ve talked to 3 scouts who are lukewarm on him, two Latin American coordinators who said there’s no way they would’ve gone anywhere near the $1.3million bonus, and one buscon (private trainer) who absolutely loves his power potential.

    The most dominant DSL player over the past few years, Eddy Fernandez, isn’t much of a prospect. He’s basically a carbon copy of Cesar Jimenez. Throws 87-88 with zero projection left and has a decent curve and change that make DSL hitters look silly. I’m rooting for him because he’s a helluva nice guy, but he’ll probably top out as an organizational player. Also, the DSL team abused the hell out of his arm this year. He threw 2 complete games in 4 days during the DSL playoffs. Not 4 days’ rest, 4 days (2 days’ rest). Those are some high pitch counts for a 19yo arm.

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