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M’s Add Reliever…

Posted by Jason A. Churchill on July 31, 2006

Did Seattle Sneak One Through?

Seriously, the Seattle Mariners may have snuck one through.

You see this guy to the left right here? The photo? Yeah, that’s the M’s new reliever.

That’s Julio Mateo.

I’m sitting here watching him throw tonight, not happy about it, either… until I notice he’s using a completely different arm slot than he’s ever used before in the big leagues.

He’s much more 3/4 now, creating more movement on his fastball and it appears to be giving him some more zip as well. His slider looks like a true slide piece instead of the slurvy style he’d been using.

If Julio Mateo can somehow turn into being useful again, the Mariners bullpen is going to be sickening.

Just for fun, catch Mateo if you can. He sure looked good in the 6th inning tonight, which means he didn’t look like Julio Mateo.

Maybe he needs a nickname.


66 Responses to “M’s Add Reliever…”

  1. Drew said


  2. Center Field Sports said

    yeah he looked good giving up the bomb to markakis

  3. John said

    Jason, U da Man!!!! THanks for pointing that out. I almost lost faith in Julio

  4. Goose said

    Haha CFS beat me to it.

  5. SethGrandpa said

    Remeber when he was really good? Man…that was cool.

    By the way I’m starting to develop a Flutie-like man-crush on Mark Lowe…he’s soooooooooooooooooooo good!!!!!!!!!!

  6. WAB said

    I totally noticed that! I was going to say something but I didn’t want to get flamed at lookoutlanding. I noticed how he was throwing a breaking ball that broke down and in to LH’ers.

    Well, whatever works. Might as well try something, cuz it’s not like losing him would hurt.

  7. Center Field Sports said

    The only good thing about it home run was it was markakis who i just did a siging with so i need him to do good, and the boys won so win win for me

  8. You guys can de-rah rah the idea all you want, but whether he fails or succeeds with his apparent new arm angle and strategy is irrelevant.

    So stop coming in here and throwing out all of your NON-insight.

    I’m so sick of it. This isn’t a place for people to come spew their bullshit or try to be funny.

    This is a place for intelligent baseball discussion, centered around the Mariners. If you have nothing intelligent or imformative to add, stay away. You aren’t welcome.

    You can get your own site for that.

    ALL OF YOU. Every last one of you are subject to this pre-requisite.

    Offenders will be torched publicly and banned by username, e-mail address and IP address.

    I’m tired of it. And guess what? This is my house.

  9. Edman said

    WTG Jason. I look at what Logan, Savannah, etc. have done to the PI forum, and it’s sad. Any real baseball discussion is immediately pounced on and given their version of “reality”.

    It’s even gotten to me, here. I go in there and read that crap, then come here, and it’s someone spouting off about crap they have no idea about. And, unfortunately, it makes me snarly. To anyone I’ve been so with, I apologize.

    I want to discuss my thoughts and observations, rationally. I want to read what others think, and why. I really don’t like the flyby….”so and so sucks”…..simply to be able to say it.

    That said, I did get to see Mateo tonight, but I hope what you’ve observed is true. The thing I’ve noticed lately, is that his breaking stuff isn’t as sharp. That, and he’s lost his command. I didn’t expect him to be as good as he was last year, but I also expected he could be an acceptible bridge guy.

    About today’s non-moves, I’m not upset. I see guys going on and on about not getting Schmidt, at “any cost”. Schmidt was in exactly the same boat as Sexson. Both teams would have to be overwhelmed to move either. I didn’t see any other contenders trading for him, which tells me the price was too high.

    Overall, most the moves today were crap….pure crap. There will be better deals next month, than what some of these teams rushed to get in. All that happened were that some teams paid more than they should have for mediocre improvements.

    I do think Bavasi’s not going to wait long if Pineiro faulters. Good news is, we’ll have a shot at any decent players being run through the waiver wires. So, either we can force a team to pull them back, or take on a bad contract at no cost, to upgrade a position. Seattle does have some money to deal with.

    Good news is, nobody in our division got enough better to worry about. Again, Texas in their amazing lack of comprehension, went after pitching…..no, wait…..they added more offense to hopefully catch up with the other team, after their starter has been pulled in the third. I was hoping Beene would lose his senses and trade Zito…..but, oh well.

    Only things I was hoping Bavasi could accomplish is getting a veteran CF to fill in for the remainder of the year, and let Jones take back what he’s learned, so he’ll be ready to start next season. Still, I’m not disappointed that he’s here.

    I also was hoping to get a veteran long reliever. If Mateo has made a turn around, perhaps we’ll accomplish that, anyway.

    As I said, I didn’t see much move today, that couldn’t be moved in August. It shows how tight the market is. Blockbuster trades are rare anymore.

    This will be an interesting race. 88 wins might take the division.

  10. Edman, you bring it. dawg brings it, most bring it.

    Hell, Willmore can bring it when he feels like it.

    I’m just not going to sit here and allow it. I’ll start deleting posts and banning idiots.

    BTW, I think yer right about 88 wins. I bet even 85 gets it done. This division is terrible – and the M’s are the most talented and balanced of the group.

  11. Edman said

    By the way, Jason. You did note that I saw Bavasi Sunday. Hense, I am not he…..though I’d love his paycheck.

  12. Goose said

    I can understand the non bullshit, the non insight, and the one liners(of which I’ve probably been guility of), but no funny? Blah.

    But point certianly taken. It’s your house, we play by your rules, or we don’t play at all.

    Back to the topics at hand. If this new armslot by Mateo makes him even a serviceable reliver, and if Raffy can come back soon, can you imagine our sick bullpen? Easily one of the best in baseball. And still has the potentional to get better. That will be an immense help for the stretch run.

    I echo the sentiment of being satisfied with Bavasi making no moves today. There wasn’t much need to, save maybe an arm, but the price would of been to high to pay more than likely anyways.

    Anahiem did nothing, Oakland did nothing. And Texas added another slugger and another pitcher. Problem is, Kip Wells makes their rotation worse, not better. And adding another slugger does’t change much for them, because out slugging the rest of this division has never helped them before.

  13. DrDetecto said

    Actually I was wondering too, what the deuce was going on with Mateo, chief …. interesting suggestion, gotta check that out…

    He also was pitching backwards a lot more, throwing a slider early in the count, one that I didn’t really recognize coming from him. The different arm slot would explain a lot of things, though I wasn’t watching for arm slot at the time.

    Mateo has had about as simple an approach as it is possible to have … throw a moving 94 (now non-moving 91) fastball around the zone and rely on his defense … Any adjustment is going to re-write the book and get hitters off his keister.

    Will be interesting to see if the M’s can re-claim Julio.

    Dr D

  14. Scott said

    What amazes me is that Bavasi has been able to turn this thing around as quickly as he has. I haven’t been this excited about a Mariner team in a while. Young and talented up the middle, Ichiro, Beltre, Felix, and the financial flexibility to get pitching this off season. Broussard was a great deal for Choo, a player that had no future here in Seattle. I love it that he is signed beyond this year, it gives me hope that Bill wants to win this year, but not without considering the next few years. As Yuni, Lopez, Felix, Lowe, Putz, Jones, and others mature, this team can be very scary.

  15. DrDetecto said

    Should edit to add that it shouldn’t be real tough for readers to pick up on the difference, either…

    Mateo’s first pitch, I went >:-[ and go, um, where’d that come from … second pitch, sat up in my chair…

    HR in his 2nd inning or not, Julio Mateo looked like a different pitcher for sure. Not sure what the new pitcher is, but sometimes you just run anywhere that is away from where you’re at 🙂

  16. Center Field Sports said

    Everett is looking sharpe the last few games, they got a good start from Mike Schilling last night and a great game pitched by Steve Uhlmansiek today.

  17. Goose said

    Speaking of the Broussard deal, we find out about the PTBNL sometime tommorow right?

    Curious as to who it will be.

  18. Kelly said

    While not exactly on topic, I would like to make a comment about reliever usage. I read a week or so ago where Hargrove stated that the Mariners had really struggled in the 6th inning keeping in games. My first response was, duh!?!, if you refuse to use talented pitchers in the 6th inning you’re going to struggle getting outs.

    This of course gets at the whole optimal use of dominant relief ace literature out there. But I got to thinking that at some point it may break down. Using Mateo instead of Putz in the 9th inning of a tie game makes no sense because if Mateo can’t get the job done you have a very good chance of not using your best reliever.

    But in the 6th inning its not so simple. If you use Lowe in the 6th, what do you do in the 7th and 8th? My understanding of the argument is that if the based are loaded in the 6th of a tie game, if you don’t bring in Lowe, what’s the chance the game is still tied in the 7th. But the fact tha there is a gauranteed 7th, 8th, and 9th innings is the critical distinction. In short, if you use Putz in the 9th instead of Mateo, you may not need to use Mateo at all. That argument no longer holds true in the 6th inning, where the issue is who do you use first, Mateo or Lowe, not who do I use.

    I suppose it does make sense to use your best reliever when you want to strand runners on base, indepedent of the inning, but it doesn’t get around the fact that if you are pulling your starter in the 6th inning on a regular basis 2+ good relievers just isn’t enough. For a game like tonight, though, where the reliever was going to start the 6th inning, doesn’t Hargrove choice make sense? Maybe Mateo does well and you get to the 7th without a problem, maybe he does poorly and you bail him out with Lowe or Sherril. What I don’t get is the insistence that it is a clear mistake to start the 6th with Mateo. If he doesn’t do well in the 6th, you can argue that you could have just started with Lowe in the first place, but that plan ignores the fact that you still have 9 outs to get and you’ve already burned your best non-closer reliever. You can pay now or pay later, but your going to have to pay.

  19. MT said

    Is there any info on who the Player to be Named was? From what I’ve been reading, I think the Indians were supposed to make a decision by today. Any information on this?

  20. jp17 said

    Is there any history of other player’s adopting a new arm slot in the middle of a season?

    Seems that he would have to spend some time perfecting it before counting on it.

    Or maybe it was suggested and worked wonders overnight. I’ve just never heard of a guy doing this mid-season.

    Also PI says that Soriano is due back Friday for what that’s worth, and yes the PTBNL is supposed to be named today.

    How exactly does that work BTW? Do they agree on a list of players for them to choose from?….Morse is due back tomorrow(well today now) I thought I read at the PI too…hmmm…he is a guy without a role here it seems.

  21. DrDetecto said

    Any Cuban can make up a new arm slot during an at-bat 🙂

    Most Mariner pitchers drop their arm slot when they pass 80 pitches … j/k again.

    NFL quarterbacks use whatever arm slot gets the ball between the trees.

    It’s not necessarily the biggest deal in the world to drop down and come a little more sidearm, or to throw a little less sidearm. Or for some pitchers, it can be a big deal.

    Wouldn’t be a shocker for Mateo to adapt quickly, if he did. Looked good Monday.

    My $0.02,

  22. Salty Dog said

    Mateo re-emerging as a reliable long relief guy would be huge for this team. That’s something we’ve been missing all year. It’ll be interesting to watch him and see if indeed he’s made an adjustment.

    I really like the job Chaves has done. He’s been a huge asset to this team.

  23. StandinPat said

    Didnt watch Mateo pitch, but did listen to the game on the radio. One thing that struck me, Mark Lowe comes in, gets out of Gil’s jam, then gets pulled after 1/3 of an inning. WTF Hargrove?

  24. KB said

    I actually agreed with Hargrove taking out Lowe at that point. We had just scored 4 runs in the top of the 8th to stretch the lead to 9-4…. Why use up Lowe for another inning when Fruto can mop up?

  25. Bilbo said

    Pat, the M’s scored in the top of the next inning to open it up so no sense using Lowe anymore at that point. If things got interesting after that, Putz was still in the pen. Actually a good move by Hargrove (can’t believe I just wrote that)

  26. eponymous coward said

    Some perspective:

    Julio Mateo: 41.1 IP, 4.79 ERA
    Brendan Donnelly: 41.1 IP, 4.79 ERA
    JC Romero: 34.2 IP, 6.79 ERA
    Joaquin Benoit: 52.1 IP, 4.99 ERA

    Someone has to be the worst P in your pen. Having Mateo be that guy isn’t so bad, all things considered.

  27. scott said

    Pat, that was not Gil’s jam. He was done after 5th. And without Soriano, they have to be more cautious on not over using Lowe. I like that move which I hate to admit. lol.

    Jac, I didn’t think Fruto was ready when they called him up. I didn’t see consistent commands when he was closing for Tacoma. Would love to hear your take on him and who you think might be a better fit at this point. Thanks

  28. Beady Eyes said

    Two things become evident to me the last week or so:

    1) Bavasi is not as bad as some peg him to be. Even though some lament the Choo-Broussard trade, I believe we traded a spare part for a contributor down the stretch. Same applies to Perez. I also believe Eduardo is more of a “clubhouse presence” than Everett EVER could be. Has anybody noticed how he’s always talking to the kids and is always one of the first guy to congratulate teammates? Yes, I know it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day, but it sure is nice to see.

    2) Yes, I agree 100%, we do have the most balanced team in this division now. The Rangers needed pitching, NOT more hitting (and I doubt Kip Wells will be the difference – please correct me if I am wrong), the A’s and Angels needed hitting and did nothing.

    If we look at the division, the Angels have a positive development with Kendrick, but lose Colon. The A’s have nothing and may peter out down the stretch. The Rangers, well…if they believe they can beat their opponents into submission offensively, well good luck. The heat may be our best friend in Texas.

    So basically I am happy. Sure, it could be better, but we didn’t have to trade our top prospects (Jones, Clement, etc) for a Soriano or another type rent a player to have a shot at taking this division.

  29. Paul said

    Jason, or anybody for that matter, I was on the east coast last week and I’m a little confused with the Snelling situation. I understand he was called up when Everett was DFA’d but then immediately placed on the 15-day DL. Then I look at the Rainiers box score and he was batting third. Did they need to open up a roster spot or was he really hurt. Also, will he return to the bigs when his 15 days are up?

  30. jp17 said

    Also there has been talk of O’Flaherty possibly being up at some point.

    Is there anything to this and should we be concerned with the amount of hits he gives up? Is he seen as a lefty specialist or being used as one? I wonder if it is as a result of facing RH batters as well.

  31. jp17 said

    Re 29

    They called him up and upon examination found something in his shoulder calling it an impingement(sp?)…but that it doesn’t hurt him to swing the bat.

    I guess I’d rather have Dobbs rot on the bench than Snelling who wasn’t hitting very well at the time anyways. Looked good smashing the ball of the base of the 425 CF wall last time I saw him for a triple.

  32. eponymous coward said

    I’ve never though Bavasi was horrible in the Allard Baird sense- he’s a C in terms of GMs, with clear strengths (farm system development) and clear weaknesses (waaaaay too willing to sign veterans in the Spiezio/Aurilia/Everett class who do not represent large improvements on replacement-level talent, has a history of long-term millstone-around-neck contracts like Mo Vaughn, Richie Sexson, Adrian Beltre and Jarrod Washburn).

    The problem is that in this division, a C puts you at the bottom of the curve. You have Beane, Daniels, and Stoneman- two of whom (Stoneman and Beane) have a track record that is better than Bavasi’s, and one of whom (Daniels) is one of the Whiz Kids with MBAs.

    That being said, nobody thought Ken Williams was a great GM until last year, either- and Bob freakin’ Brenly has a World Series ring, the 1997 and 2003 Marlins have them too. Sometimes, mediocre and lucky pays off for you.

  33. Edman said

    The J C Romero thing kinda makes me chuckle. A few posters ripped Bavasi for not snatching him away from the Twins, instead of letting the Angels grab him. Wonder what they think now?

  34. jhelfgott said

    Apologies for the off-topic…ness, but Kevin Goldstein reported significant doubt about the Gourriel defection over at Baseball Prospectus yesterday.

    I talked to several sources in the Dominican Republic today, and Goldstein´s right. Gourriel didn´t defect.

    A partial explanation is available over at GlobalBaseball.

  35. jhelfgott said

    Apologies for the off-topic…ness, but Kevin Goldstein reported significant doubt about the Gourriel defection over at Baseball Prospectus yesterday.

    I talked to several sources in the Dominican Republic today, and Goldstein´s right. Gourriel didn´t defect.

    A partial explanation of what happened/what spurred the rumors is available over at GlobalBaseball.

  36. Beady Eyes said

    EC: See your point. I would say he’s slightly better than a C GM, but you are correct, he is no Beane or Stoneman and most likely will never be one.

    I have this belief HE is the one telling Armstrong and Lincoln that they could do so many things and stay within budget. Seeing how he’s been making these shrewd little trades while allowing us to restock the farm system gives me hope that he can keep us competitive for years to come.

    Now if only he would so something about Hargrove, eeeegh. Last night Mateo should have NOT pitched the 7th! With Markakis being a left handed hitter, why wouldn’t Hargrove just throw Sherrill in to start the inning? Markakis, then Roberts who hits weaker from the right side and then the LH bat of Fahey would have been the perfect inning for George.

    Once Julio gave up the HR, THEN they stall to get Sherrill more tosses in the BP. Why do that when you could give him his warm ups to start the inning?


  37. d2ret said

    1st post for me. I wanna know about the kid Snelling, what his health status is at the moment, and where he fits in long term for the M’s. Every time ive seen him play, he looks so locked into the strike zone for a young hitter and even displayed better fielding ability and arm in left than I believe Ibanez to have(Ibanez tries, and does a pretty good job out there, but is not as athletic as what Ive seen out of Snelling, especially with the arm). If he were to ever get back to 100% I would stick him out there every day.
    Also, I read a comment that the Mariners would only give up Sexson for an overwhelming package, and the same was also said for Schmidt down there in SF. Now I know Schmidt is a free agent in the off-season, and we could have a good shot at him, being that hes from the Northwest, but here is a deal that I thought would be a good one for both squads: Sexson and Jeremy Reed for Schmidt, maybe throw in a minor league pitcher like Bizardo or Nagoete? I think its a deal that would be very fair for both teams. I mean I know SF probably would be looking for a top pitching prospect in return, but they would have to like the idea of getting a young starting center fielder to replace Finley, (who is at the tail end of his career). Maybe im placing too much value in Reed, and I dont how high other teams value him at this point, but with Sexson, it might be a pretty good package for them. Besides, they are going to lose the guy in the off-season anyways right? Do they just want to settle for the draft pick?……maybe, i dunno.
    Ok, so say you do this deal, the money has to match up pretty well, i think…..then what have you done to the Mariners….
    Alright here it is (and I know this may sound like my own personal fantasy, but I dont see why it wouldnt work). Alright, so with the departure of Sexson, you would move Ibanez to first base. If Snelling is healthy enough to do, put him out there in left and keep Broussard and Perez as the DH’s. If Snelling is still not 100%, you put Broussard at 1st, and leave Ibanez out there in left until Snelling is healthy enough to play it, in which case you would use Snelling as the DH option for Right handed pitching. Ok, problem solved……you now have Snelling, who is an absolute hitting machine, in your every day lineup.
    Now to the good part….you have a true ace at the top of your rotation in Jason Shmidt. Take Joel Piniero and move him to long relief, or better yet deal him for a mid-level prospect.
    Now I know what some people might be thinking right now. your lineup just lost a ton of slugging and run production. Alright well, i would say, you dont know what Snelling is capable of……HE IS A HITTER. He’ll put way more balls in play than Sexson will, and wont clogg up the base paths. Besides, even if offensive production does fall off with this deal, I would trade it for what Shmidt could give us, (7 or 8 innings of shut down pitching every fifth day). I mean, ultimately, the prize is not just to get to playoffs, but to go deep in them, and get a shot at winning it all. I know that might not be a realistic expectation for us this year, but if we are ever going to get a shot at the World Series, we arent going to do it by riding Richie Sexson’s big stick all the way there. We need a Jason Schmidt to contend with other teams aces. Right now, we have nothing of the sort. Felix is too young, and I dont think I have to go through a list of our other starters to prove this. With Shmidt, all of a sudden your rotation goes something like this in the playoffs(which we would reach with him by the way in this division just ready to be taken over):
    4)Washburn/Moyer…..odd man gets long relief

    Now thats a contendor!
    So what do ya think Jason, I mean I know this is a couple days late and therefore might be pointless all together, but it wasnt as if im influencing Bavasi’s moves anyhow……unless he logs onto this site….which he may, now that I think about it, damn!
    But do you think that would have been a realistic deal? I only see one downside, we get slightly older (Shmidt is now in his 30’s). I dont suppose that there is anyway would could pull this deal through the waiver wire? I dont fully understand the waiver wire. Ok, thats it, sorry for such a lengthy blog, but I guess I had some stuff to say. I promise my second one wont be half the length of this one. Oh yeah………ummm, and what about Tuiasosopo, just give the scouting report and projectability to majors on the kid. Ok thats it. thx.

  38. Great post!

  39. d2ret said

    ok, my 2nd post:
    I just wanted to say this is what my lineup would look like after the deal i mentioned on the last post:
    vs. RHP:

    4)Beltre —I think he slots in well at cleanup, being so agressive(I expect to be told why this is not a good idea Churchill).

    vs LHP


    Like I said…..may not look as good as as with Sexson it there, but with Shmidt, you are really battling with teams in the playoffs rather than dropping game 1 to the other teams best pitcher. Also, id condsider Snelling at the 2 hole vs. RHP, but Lopez has earned his due this year and Snelling hasnt even played so….. but lets just say you do do that, heres a revision:

    ……i kinda like that lineup 🙂

  40. Scruffy Lefty said


    I noticed the Mateo’s arm change and didn’t even think about it. Hope it works well for him

  41. Wade said

    Reed can’t be a part of a trade right now as he is on the IR.

    Ibanez, as Jason will point out – blows at 1B. He’s an OF/DH – and his arm is actually his strength in the field – good accurate throws with some oomph. His range is a little suspect though- far weaker than his arm.

  42. eponymous coward said

    Um, D2ret, you do realize the odds that Schmidt and Sexson would make it through unclaimed on waivers is about nil? (It did happen to Manny a few years ago- but Manny makes quite a bit more and was in the middle of a very expensive long-term deal as opposed to at the end of a contract, and the Yankees would be more than happy to suck up the salary hit of 3-4 million to get an extra P and a better shot at a title).

    In other words- we’re not trading for him, and if Schmidt ends up in a Mariner uniform, it’s as a free agent signing.

    The Giants managed to fill their 1B hole with Shea Hillenbrand as a waiver claim, anyway…

  43. KB said

    I’d rather keep Sexson’s power and sign Schmidt in the offseason, even if it leaves a healthy Snelling on the bench.

    Imagine making that deal and missing the playoffs, then failing to re-sign Schmidt…. what a disaster.

  44. d2ret said

    good point about Reed being on IR. I didnt think about that. But if Ibanez sucks at 1B so much, you could just as easily put him at the DH with Broussard at 1B vs RHP and only play him there vs. LHP. Also, I do think that Snelling has a better arm than Ibanez, but we’ll see what the expert has to say about this.
    Eponymous Coward,
    im pretty sure neither Sexson nor Shmidt have been put on waivers before. I looked into it a little, and a team gets a chance to put a player on waivers and doesnt have to give them up on the first try. Only on the second time they have been placed on waivers, can another team claim them outright. Also, both players wouldnt have to be place on waivers, just one. When a player is placed on waivers for the first time, another team can ‘claim’ him, at which point you get a chance to trade him to all other 29 teams in the league. So if SF wasnt that team that claimed him, which odds would be they werent, then technically it could go down just like that, and the Mariners could proceed to offer a package just like a regular trade. Given what Wade said, that Reed is on the IR, this package couldnt be offered. But im sure if we could put together something else with Sexson, he would be the main piece they are looking at in that deal anyhow. And if all this just went to hell and there was no good deal we could fix that inluded Sexson, we could exercise our right to pull him back and make no deal at all (again, because it was his first time being put on waivers). So my fantasy aint impossible, but in this case, your point Coward, is made, well…….pointless.

    In other words, know what your talking about before you post, I think that is what Mr. Churchill asked for anyhow earlier in the day isnt it?

    It was just an idea I had about this trade, and honestly if you can come up with something better, post it. But honestly I dont see the point of coming on the site to bring down other peoples ideas. And if you still feel inclined to do that, at least get the facts right.

  45. d2ret said

    good point KB,
    i should have said that all this would have to be contingent upon Schmidt signing a long term deal with the M’s before the deal was finalized.

  46. Sabean would never have let the Ms negotiate with Schmidt like that. not a chance.

    BTW, someone above asked what Chris Snelling’s health status is…

    Well, he’s not hurt. Not at all.

  47. eponymous coward said


    Let me explain why I think this deal wouldn’t happen by spelling out the process, so you more clearly get my point.

    SF puts Schmidt on waivers so he can be dealt to Seattle. Yankees (or Red Sox, or whoever) claim him, SF retracts the waiver and keeps him…but the deal cannot be made, because he did not pass through waivers. That’s what the July 31st deadline means- all players must pass through waivers to be dealt from now on in the regular season.

    So you tell me- why do you think the Yankees would NOT claim Schmidt on waivers, since it’s pretty obvious the only reason you do that is with a player after 7/31 is to be able to trade them? Would they want to give Sabean a chance to deal him to the Red Sox or Chicago, or the Mets (large-market teams who could afford a third of a season of Schmidt)? And conversely, don’t you think the Mets, Red Sox or Chicago, or whoever, would think the same thing?

    There are MLB GMs who will put their ENTIRE ROSTER on waivers after the deadline (yep, you heard me right), to see who sneaks through without being claimed, so they can make deals. And, as I pointed out, Manny Ramirez made it through waivers a couple of years ago, so it DOES happen.

    I’m just saying your trade proposal is very unlikely to happen. Sexson COULD make it through waivers, maybe (since any team who made the claim could get stuck with his contract). Schmidt, I don’t think so.

  48. Dave Cairns said

    Jason if Snelling is not injured how are the club allowed to put him on the DL ?

    I agree with your stance about quality postings and not just people spouting BS … That is why I love raeding the opinions of yourself, edman, dawg and willmore.

    Keep up the quality posts folks, being in Australia I rely on the first hand viewpoints you get seeing the teams play.


  49. The M’s just wanted to reward Chris for his relentless effort so they called him up for a day and put him on the 15-day DL… the MAJOR LEAGUE 15-day DL… he’s getting paid big league dollars right now.

    There is no shoulder problem.

  50. Dave Cairns said

    It seems crazy that there is not a rule to stop the DL list being abused like that. Pay the guy a ML bonus at season’s end if they can’t find a spot on the 25 man roster for him.

    And we all know there is little reason for him to stay in AAA.

  51. AK1984 said

    Okay, I guess with Chris Snelling getting paid approximately six times as much to play in Triple-A and the Tacoma Rainiers gaining another roster spot with Snelling rehabbing down there, it works out well for everyone involved in the whole situation.

  52. StandinPat said

    Ok for those of you who backed Hargroves decision to pull Lowe, as a move to ‘save’ his arm, you kinda missing something. An appearance is an appearance. He still warmed up, still threw 1/3 of an inning, another 2/3 or full inning on top of that doesnt make a signifigant difference. The fact that he was used at all already puts fatigue in his arm. 1/3 or 1 1/3 isnt the same as using a reliever for 4 innings and needing to give him an extra day of rest. This wasnt a good move by Hargrove, it was idiotic. He could have put Lowe back out there for another 2/3 of an inning, bringing his grand total to a whopping 1 inning appearance, then ran Sherril out for another inning, prob not have that run score, it was irrelevant anyways, but mainly not use an addt’l reliever. That would have been the smart move if you were worried about the Bullpen being taxed with Soriano out. Using an extra reliever when its not necessary? How on earth do you say thats a good move?

  53. SP is right. Lowe wasn’t pulled to “save” his arm, however. It was to avoid overtaxing the pitcher in general. The weather is ridiclous.

  54. Oly Rainiers Fan said

    What’s the story on Petagine? I heard he’s not even bothering to make the drive from Seattle to Tacoma – not even showing up in the clubhouse. I know we basically screwed him (or, more accurately, Hargrove did), but still…being allowed to suck up a roster spot for how long?

  55. I saw RP on Saturday, so I dunno.

  56. StandinPat said


    Is your opinion of LaHair changing at all? Its been a month and a half and he’s still hitting over 300. And what about Clement? His numbers arent lookin real great, hows the swing and the approach?

  57. JasonAChurchill said

    LaHair is still slugging where his OBP should be…

    And he still does squat versus LHP (.273 with NO XBH since joining Tacoma), which would be fine if he was driving in runs and grabbing enough XBH’s overall.

    But he’s not.

    Slugging .425 is ordinary.

    I don’t think he’s useless, and he isn’t that old, just 24, so another year in Tacoma might help him turn a corner.

  58. JasonAChurchill said

    As for clement, he’s been rushed, so I don’t expect much from him right now. He’s not overmatched, but he’s hitting a lot of weak grounders and pop-ups.

    Some of that is rust, some of it is the fact that he, Rob Johnson, Matt Tuiasosopo and Adam Jones are playing at levels a step ahead of where their game is ready to do so.

  59. JasonAChurchill said

    Re: Fruto

    I think he’s ready to get a look, which he’s getting. He’s not fully prepared to be GOOD in the bigs. His stuff is there, his command is not.

    But he was their best option, since Atchison is the Chris Snelling of pitchers, minus the severity of the injuries. Dude is always hurt lately.

    Jimenez was passed over because he is seen as a soft tosser, which would not be the case if he was relieving. He’s be throwing very close to, if not equal to, George Sherril’s 88-92 velo if he was in the pen, where he belongs long term.

    BTW, Soriano is probably going to pitch this weekend.

  60. Questions…

    Is anyone unclear about why Willmore was ultimately thrashed this past weekend?

    And is anyone unclear about who’s house this is?

    I mean, this isn’t a public forum designed to host anyone’s thoughts on any subject, spewed out with any vigor and non-style and subtance they feel…

    If people want that, direct them to fanhome. The crap over there is tremendous.

    I don’t ever care is someone disagrees with me. Those who know me and have been around here awhile know this.

    Just don’t come in here with an attitude like I’m sitting on YOUR couch.

    We all know it’s the other way around.

    Just don’t be argumentative and ignorant, and all will be fine.

    I hate pulling this crap, but ya know what? In the end, something has to give with that sort of thing, and it sure as hell is not going to be me.

    One more thing…

    To those who have been asking questions of me, please send those tome via e-mail at Churchill@ProspectInsider.com. It’s difficult for me to catch them all here in the thread of comments.

    I reply to all e-mails, ask anyone.



  61. DIQ said


    No need to explain yourself. It’s all love bro.
    So watching today’s game, for once I was actually excited to see Mateo pitch and see his new 3/4 arm slot. I noticed he was getting a lot more movement and hitting his spots, specifically the corners. I think the ump might’ve squeezed him on some strikes early in the count, therefore he was pitching from behind on most batters.

    I think another thing that people don’t understand is that Hargrove goes to Mateo in these situations b/c he is basically the veteran in the bullpen. He is/was a ‘proven’ reliever who could throw strikes and be depended on.

    Overall I’m excited and pulling for him to be more effective. He was given an extension and you can’t just dump his contract, well you could, but it wouldn’t be the wise thing to do. They’re making an effort to get good use out of him and I applaud that.

  62. Rick said

    Am I crazy or wasn’t Mateo’s arm angle a lot more 3/4 back when he was effective? When did he switch out of it?

  63. eponymous coward said

    Mateo’s fastball was 94 when he was effective. That has a lot to do with it. The 3/4 angle might help, though. He’s still an innings-eater in the Shiggy class (read: utterly replaceable by any muber of AAA pitchers) and I wish he wasn’t on a two year deal…but I guess it’s progress that instead of paying Shiggy 3-4 million a year, we’re paying Julio a million or so.

  64. WAB said

    Still no news on the PTBNL?

  65. I would be a little surprised if the reports were true that the Indians only had until yesterday to pick. Typically, teams have 30 days, 60 days, or until Oct 1 or Nov 1 or something.

    I think it’s going to be a pitcher, however, as there is only one position player on the list.

  66. WAB said

    Very cool. Thanks for the inside info Jason…heh.

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